All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!! - Page 61

Originalist · #**601** 07-13-2014, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

Test, Test. Could I have your attention, puleeeeze. You know all that stuff Jesus said about remission of sins in His name and what Peter preached in Acts 2 about remission of sins? Fergit it. Paul has a better grip on remissions of sins so just read Romans 8.

tic

Has anyone said that? But perhaps where we are erring is thinking tangible things called "sins" are attached to our souls and that when a preacher says the word Jesus when he baptizes us, that these things called sins that are attached to our souls are magically washed away. That does seem to be the interpretation many in our movement have concerning Peter's words concerning the name of Jesus as it relates to the remission of sins in baptism. We credit the baptism for taking away the sin instead of Jesus taking away the sin when we are baptized INTO his name. We separate Jesus the person from Jesus the name.

But let me ask you. Paul declares in Romans 8:2 that one who has the Spirit has been made free from the law of sin and death. Please think about Paul's statement carefully. Now, please explain, according to your soteriology, how one could be free from the law of sin and death while at the same time still carrying around ever sin they have ever committed?

You MUST deal with this.

Sean · #**602** 07-13-2014, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

Has anyone said that? But perhaps where we are erring is thinking tangible things called "sins" are attached to our souls and that when a preacher says the word Jesus when he baptizes us, that these things called sins that are attached to our souls are magically washed away. That does seem to be the interpretation many in our movement have concerning Peter's words concerning the name of Jesus as it relates to the remission of sins in baptism. We credit the baptism for taking away the sin instead of Jesus taking away the sin when we are baptized INTO his name. We separate Jesus the person from Jesus the name.

But let me ask you. Paul declares in Romans 8:2 that one who has the Spirit has been made free from the law of sin and death. Please think about Paul's statement carefully. Now, please explain, according to your soteriology, how one could be free from the law of sin and death while at the same time still carrying around ever sin they have ever committed?
You MUST deal with this.

Bro. If I may butt in here...Romans 8:2 was written to folks that were already baptized. Their sins were remitted already....Bro., you know me...I will drop the POST bomb here if you dont agree...LOL

Sean · #**603** 07-13-2014, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Chapter and verse? I see Romans 3-5 plainly declaring the sinner to be right with God on the basis of faith in Christ not on their knowledge of theology and soteriology.

Jason, the book of Romans was NOT written to sinners....It was written to those that were already saved. Sinners must experience Acts before they can even think of applying the book of Romans or ANY of the epistles to their lives for that matter.

This premise that I have showed you right here is EXACTLY why and how folks have come up with an alternative plan of salvation....simply this happened....you ready.....THEY SKIPPED ACTS!!!

mfblume · #**604** 07-13-2014, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

But let me ask you. Paul declares in Romans 8:2 that one who has the Spirit has been made free from the law of sin and death. Please think about Paul's statement carefully. Now, please explain, according to your soteriology, how one could be free from the law of sin and death while at the same time still carrying around ever sin they have ever committed?

You MUST deal with this.

No Paul does not declare that. It says that the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE frees us from another LAW of sin and death. It does not say simply having the Spirit frees us.

That means there is a LAW that we succumb to if we do not abide by the Law of the Spirit. Paul showed how we succumb in ch 7. YOU WILL TO DO GOOD but find that you cannot do it through fleshly efforts to fulfill your will. It's like wanting to not sin, and trying your best not to, and then finding yourself doing it anyway!

Since there is a LAW to how the Spirit works, we need to learn the specifics of that law. And that is explained in Romans 6.

First we get baptized. But so many do not know what baptism did. That is why Paul asked KNOW YE NOT?

So we must LEARN what happened in baptism so that we can DO something that qualifies us fro the LAW OF THE SPIRIT to be effective in us. Once you know Christ's death is your death, due to your baptism in to his death, then you can know you are also RESURRECTED with Him since it is a package deal. And once you know that, you can present yourself to God as one who is resurrected. Alive from the dead. 6:13. That means you do not simply will yourself to do good, but you present yourself to God in faith for him to empower you. That is a far cry from willing to do good and then attempting to do it in fleshly strength.

THAT is how the Law of the Spirit makes us free. Otherwise, we're in Christ, have no clue about how the law of the Spirit works, and wonder why the Spirit never empowers us to overcome sin. Once we know of what to do from ch 6 and what not to do in ch 7, we can then finally walk after the Spirit by reliance on HIS POWER, and that means the law of the Spirit will free us from the law of sin and death.

The law of sin and death states that if you will yourself to do good and use flesh to do it, you will fail. The law of the Spirit states that if you rely upon God instead of fleshly power, as in Rom 6:13, the Spirit can then WORK and empower you to overcome!

You can have the Spirit, be in Christ and still walk after the flesh to fail.

Sean · #**605** 07-13-2014, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

By giving them his Spirit, God is declaring that he has freed them from the "law of sin and death" (Romans 8:2)

Furthermore, God says that if his Spirit lives within them, then they have spiritual life and imputed righteousness.

Peter said in acts 5 that God gives the Holy Ghost to those who "obey him" or obey and believe the gospel concerning Christ.

Our apostolic forefathers did not teach or believe that the Trinitarian brothers they were separating from were lost. If they have the Holy Ghost, they are brothers. You cannot ignore these clear verses in Romans 8 and call yourself objective. You cannot say that someone is still carrying around their sins when God says they are not.

Truthfully, I'd rather you say these people really don't have the Holy Ghost. That would make more sense.

Bro., no matter how you try to defend this....the Holy Ghost does not remit sins. ONLY water baptism does

Abiding Now · #**606** 07-13-2014, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

Has anyone said that? But perhaps where we are erring is thinking tangible things called "sins" are attached to our souls and that when a preacher says the word Jesus when he baptizes us, that these things called sins that are attached to our souls are magically washed away. That does seem to be the interpretation many in our movement have concerning Peter's words concerning the name of Jesus as it relates to the remission of sins in baptism. We credit the baptism for taking away the sin instead of Jesus taking away the sin when we are baptized INTO his name. We separate Jesus the person from Jesus the name.

But let me ask you. Paul declares in Romans 8:2 that one who has the Spirit has been made free from the law of sin and death. Please think about Paul's statement carefully. Now, please explain, according to your soteriology, how one could be free from the law of sin and death while at the same time still carrying around ever sin they have ever committed?

You MUST deal with this.

Read Sean's post above. Romans (and all the epistles) is written to folks that are in the church, those that have been born again of water and Spirit, those that have already had there sins remitted at water baptism in Jesus name. Paul was explaining in Romans 7 and 8 the struggle that even born again saints would have with their flesh. Vs.13 gives us saints the answer to the struggle, "mordify" (make dead, kill, put to death) the flesh.

mfblume · #**607** 07-13-2014, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Bro., no matter how you try to defend this....the Holy Ghost does not remit sins. ONLY water baptism does

Right! That is why Peter COMMANDED the gentiles to get baptized in Jesus' name after they already had the Spirit.

Sean · #**608** 07-13-2014, 09:15 AM

And he did not wait til the next day!!!...LOL

mfblume · #**609** 07-13-2014, 09:22 AM

Ironically, Originalist is making the same mistake about Rom 8:1-2 that many Jesus' name people make. They think having the Spirit is abiding by the Law of the Spirit of Life.

That is so wrong.

mfblume · #**610** 07-13-2014, 09:30 AM

When Paul wrote Rom 7:25 and said that he is made free from the law of sin and death by the death of Christ, he meant the baptism into Christ's death that he wrote about in 6:3 frees us. Who will deliver him from the body of Death? God will, so he thanked God for it. And how did God do it? Through Jesus by us getting baptized into that death he experienced..

This is how 7:4 says we are free... by the body of Christ... That means that when Christ's body died on the cross, we were meant to get baptized into that death so as to get into His body. Death is the point at which we enter the body of Christ. By Baptism. And once dead with Christ, we're dead to sin. Why? For he that is dead is freed from sin, and we became dead by having been baptized into Christ's death.

IT ALL GOES BACK TO BAPTISM!

Only SO MANY OF US who were baptized were baptized into his death. Notice that stipulation.

Rom 6:3 KJV Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?