The media is making a circus out of these events...getting people to claw at each other's throats.
The media has been found manufacturing portions of the story. So it is not unreasonable to view that they may be clouding the issue with manufactured stories and assumptions. Smoke and mirrors...the events to get everybody's attention on that while other equally important issues are happening that they are not reporting.
I would say that it would be wise for everybody to take a step back, take a deep breath and look around at world events to see what else is going on. It is not above the media to be deceptive using emotionally charged issues to cloud something else going on.
__________________
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
Last edited by AreYouReady?; 04-10-2012 at 05:16 PM.
The media is making a circus out of these events...getting people to claw at each other's throats.
The media has been found manufacturing portions of the story. So it is not unreasonable to view that they may be clouding the issue with manufactured stories and assumptions. Smoke and mirrors...the events to get everybody's attention on that while other equally important issues are happening that they are not reporting.
I would say that it would be wise for everybody to take a step back, take a deep breath and look around at world events to see what else is going on. It is not above the media to be deceptive using emotionally charged issues to cloud something else going on.
Makes you wonder what else they have hidden or manufactured.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Zimmerman's attorneys announced they have "lost contact" with Zimmerman and are withdrawing as counsel
Attorneys say they still believe former client is innocent and acted in self-defense
Engage in heated discussion with the press, say Zimmerman is "victim" of press attacks
In a highly contentious press conference, attorneys Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig announced they have withdrawn as counsel for George Zimmerman, who remains under intense scrutiny for the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
"It's no so much that we are resigning. It's that we cannot continue to represent him until he comes forward," said attorney Craig Sonner.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
If there was no loss of life, it would be laughable to suggest that a teenager being chased would not be justified in standing his ground to the extent that he moderately injured his pursuer (if it did happen), .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Stew, I am seriously trying to see how you come to such conclusion. I was in Atlanta for week last month. On several occasions I was followed and even approached on the streets after dark. Once I was alone. Are you really saying I would be justified in attacking the individual? I think not. It would not give me the right to confront and attack, nor hide and surprise jump him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew
Hoovie, I hope you are being facetious, but for the sake of the conversation:
There is a big difference between you feeling like you were being followed and this situation where we know he was being pursued "because they always get away". But, yes, if you were being followed by a man who was mad because you were "getting away" and if said man got out of his vehicle to pursue you when you ran away, I could easily see there being a point when you needed to stand your ground.
What I absolutely would have a hard time seeing is how said man could chase and kill you in self defense (once again after having been advised not too). That would be true if he was green and you were purple.
Stew, I isolated the quote the way I did intentionally because I want to understand how you are thinking apart from the Trayvon case. Sure in hindsight we can say he was 17 and carrying skittles and we now know a dispatcher said they did not need Zim to keep track of the person in question. That is what we are told in hindsight, though, hence my question to you about the legality of attacking someone who I believe was following me and was a threat to me.
What do you mean by "being a point when you needed to stand your ground"? I am not sure you are answering my question.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
We know there was confronting... but we do not know who attacked who first. Do we ?
I have been to Atlanta several times. You are a brave man to walk alone there after dark.
How were you followed? Did you feel threatened? Where they watching you? Stopping when you stopped? Walking when you walked?
What were the circumstances?
No we don't know... except it does not appear Travon had any injury aside from the bullet wound. That would suggest he was attacking Zim, would it not? At any rate, I am an advocate of letting the evidence doing the talking. To think this forum or the media has a better handle on this than the Special Prosecutor is preposterous.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Stew, I isolated the quote the way I did intentionally because I want to understand how you are thinking apart from the Trayvon case. Sure in hindsight we can say he was 17 and carrying skittles and we now know a dispatcher said they did not need Zim to keep track of the person in question. That is what we are told in hindsight, though, hence my question to you about the legality of attacking someone who I believe was following me and was a threat to me.
What do you mean by "being a point when you needed to stand your ground"? I am not sure you are answering my question.
My original point was in response to those who look to invoke the "stand your ground" principle in support of Zimmerman. My point is that they are quick to absolutely say Zimmerman should stand his ground to the extent of killing Martin, but act like if Martin did have a physical altercation with the man who was chasing him he would have been unjustified.
Personally, I don't see this as a stand your ground case at all, but I certainly don't see how you can pursue somebody and then have the stand your ground principle evoked. There are things that we do not know about the actual confrontation, but my position after hearing the 911 call is that there should not have been an actual confrontation in the first place...
But we're really at the point of beating a dead horse. Those who are open to what I am saying are open and those who are not, are not.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Ok got it. The Stand your ground law works both ways (if it applies)
I appreciate you Stew. I think its fair to say all of us are heavily influenced to our positions by those reporting the incident and its tragic nature. Its sad but true i think. If we had a personal relationship aside from a digital internet forum maybe it would change the dynamics. Idk
Stew, Jermyn and others, I ask you to forgive me if you feel you have been personally wronged in this thread. I will do my best to wait a while before posting here any more.
Blessings to all you and yours.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Zimmerman's attorneys announced they have "lost contact" with Zimmerman and are withdrawing as counsel
Attorneys say they still believe former client is innocent and acted in self-defense
Engage in heated discussion with the press, say Zimmerman is "victim" of press attacks
In a highly contentious press conference, attorneys Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig announced they have withdrawn as counsel for George Zimmerman, who remains under intense scrutiny for the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
"It's no so much that we are resigning. It's that we cannot continue to represent him until he comes forward," said attorney Craig Sonner.
Hard to represent someone when they have had to leave the state,maybe he doesnt need any representing right now also.
Ok got it. The Stand your ground law works both ways (if it applies)
I appreciate you Stew. I think its fair to say all of us are heavily influenced to our positions by those reporting the incident and its tragic nature. Its sad but true i think. If we had a personal relationship aside from a digital internet forum maybe it would change the dynamics. Idk
Stew, Jermyn and others, I ask you to forgive me if you feel you have been personally wronged in this thread. I will do my best to wait a while before posting here any more.
Blessings to all you and yours.
Bro, I don't think you have said anything that would offend anybody. You are one of the people that I feel I can have conversations of any sort with and actually get somewhere or accomplish something mutually (I do not feel that way about everybody I talk to )
My whole frustration has been with trying to discuss the merits of this case and having the conversation devolve into the same old red herring discussions. I have little interest in discussing Sharpton and the rest in this conversation about what happened that one night.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
This is where you guys lose me. I've said from the beginning to disregard the race of the people and consider the circumstances. The fact that anyone thinks it's okay for armed adults who are not law enforcement or trained or vetted in any way to start following teenagers for no reason at all is confusing. The fact that you think it's okay for him to continue to follow after he has already called the proper authorities and has been told that he didn't need to follow and should just meet the officers is even more confusing. When he does all of this, pursues the kid who he said was trying to get away from him (because apparently they always get away), eventually catches and kills him, anyone saying he was justified just confuses me to no end.
If there was no loss of life, it would be laughable to suggest that a teenager being chased would not be justified in standing his ground to the extent that he moderately injured his pursuer (if it did happen), but the pursuer is undoubtedly justified in standing his ground to the extent that he killed the person he was chasing (which we know did happen).
I hope nothing like this happens to anyone close to anybody here, but I think we would be well served to put ourselves in the shoes of the victim here (and I do believe there is one...and only one). I have a son who will likely be a larger than average 17 year old. The last thing I want is for armed yahoos to think they can arbitrarily chase and apprehend him for no reason at all.
You assume a lot of things that don't appear to be true. Let's think this through slowly. First, if I am on a neighborhood watch and there have been break ins and such in my neighborhood I am going to have my eyes open. When I see a suspicious person walking around who doesn't appear familiar, perhaps doesn't belong int he neighborhood, I'm probably going to look into it. I would call the authorities as Zimmerman did, but lets not be fools about this. The average response time to a 911 call in some places is upwards of 30 minutes. The suspicious person is long gone by that time. Not to mention, the dispatcher did NOT tell Zim NOT to follow Trayvon. They said they didnt need him to do it. BIG difference.
Second, if you or I are following a person who appears suspicious...why would the person we are following feel the need to assault you or me? I can follow someone around and if they didn't like it, the normal response would be to ask me why I am following them or call the police if they were really worried, not come at me and attempt to smash my head into the ground. There is no report that Zimmerman did anything BUT follow Trayvon. You don't turn around and attack a person for following you. You ask why they are following you, run away, or call the police.
Now, if the person we are following does decide to turn around and attack us, to me it tells me two things: first that I was right to be suspicious of them because innocent people don't just attack other humands and second, I better defend myself. And if I am armed, you better believe the person attacking me is the one getting put down.
It amazes me that no matter how much we keep finding out about "innocne tlittle" Trayvon people just seem to ignore it. One person in the story is a neighborhood watch member, passed the checks to get a concealed carry, volunteered weekends to help minorites and was respected and liked by his neighbors...INCLUDING many blacks. The other was kicked out of school for drugs and has the appearance of yet another thug with gold teeth. Yet somehow...the good guy is the teen druggy here?
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