What is a Happening Church to you? What is a Dead church?

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Apparently, the phrase I of Christ means nothing to you. We are baptized into Christ ... His salvation ... not Paul's or Apollos' or Cephas'.

Again, this is accomplished at water baptism in Jesus name.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Again, this is accomplished at water baptism in Jesus name.

You're doing a solid job reiterating your understanding of God's Word.

[Hoovie]

Whether the church is one where folks are backflippin or one where the worship is litergical, a happening church would be one where souls are getting to know Jesus and making lifelong commitments to him.

A happening church is one that has many entire families living as godly examples in a wicked world.

A dead church is where people are weak in faith.

Where even the families in the church struggle with Christian living on a daily basis.

Where the assembly has simply become a place to "get recharged", and esoteric affirmation is revered as the premium experience.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You're doing a solid job reiterating your understanding of God's Word.

I understand the Word to say what it says.

You stated: We are baptized into Christ ... His salvation


This was in reference to Paul speaking about water baptism. You seem to be denying this by continually posting.

It is very plain that Paul was speaking in terms of Water baptism. He stated plainly that there were those that were claiming Apollos and himself as their leader. He states again very plainly, were you baptized into our name, or in the name of Jesus? He then goes on to itentify that it is indeed water baptism that he is speaking of by asking is "Paul was crUcified, and were you baptized in the name of Paul?" and then declaring that he DID baptize several folks.

The whole emphasis in this text is that it is Jesus that died, and Jesus that was buried, and Jesus that rose again (the Gospel), and our response is to his work is NOT to be baptized in Paul or Apollos's name, because they did not die for you. You are buried with JESUS in water baptism. The NAME DOES mean something, or it would not have mattered what name folks were baptized in.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Yes indeed baptized into one Spirit.. taking on the name and person of Christ ... in our regeneration. :sshhh

It's a dirty little secret but Trinnies are part of the Body because they are Spirit-filled with Christ and most of their churches have the same Spirit the quickens you and I. :sshhh

To be part of the body of Christ you must be born again of the water and the Spirit. We are baptized into Christ [his body] when we are water baptized for the removal of the body of sin. Col 2:11-12, It is not only something done in likeness to Christ burial but there is a death to sin, we are freed from sin by the circumsion of the Spirit...the remission of our sins. See Romans 6 We have been baptized into one body by one Spirit in water baptism. Our soul is cleansed, washed by the blood of Christ when we call on his name at water baptism. It's more than symbolic.

Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Death is not a likeness of Spirit baptism.

Ga 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ro 2:29
But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

[mizpeh]

We are in Christ when we have been born again, water and Spirit....we are then in Christ or in his body. We are baptized into Christ or into Christ's body when we are water baptized in Jesus' name.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I will answer this one, and then I am gone for now.


It is not up to me to judge whether a trinitarian has received the Holy Ghost, or a false spirit. My personal view is that most do receive the real deal (There are goof balls in ALL of Pentecost that didn't get the real).

My issue is that at some point the Holy Ghost that is leading them forward into a relationship with God will show them that to be water baptized in Jesus name is the biblical way. It is where they are buried with him, and baptized into his death. At the point that the Holy Ghost brings this to them, if they reject it, then they have rejected Gods word, and the leading of Gods Spirit.

Now as to whether of not they are part of the body prior to water baptism, I will leave that debate to you good people. My only issue is that they WILL be led by the Holy Ghost to the water to be baptized again in Jesus name. A "Paul" will find them and ask them:

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

I think you need to examine the passage you posted carefully.

One Paul's question to John's was not unto what proper name were you baptized? ... but rather unto what were you baptized? Who had they identified with when they were baptized. There baptism was not in obedience to Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, Jesus had been baptize under John's baptism also. Does this invalidate his baptism?

The key to Paul's message is telling these disciples that they were believe on Him ... the possesor of the Name ... and come after Him ... Christ Jesus.

They had identified in their baptism unto the repentance that John preached but had not believed on the death and resurrection Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.

When they believed they then identified themselves with name/person of Jesus Christ, our Savior.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

We are in Christ when we have been born again, water and Spirit....we are then in Christ or in his body. We are baptized into Christ or into Christ's body when we are water baptized in Jesus' name.

Are you making a distinction now between being in Christ and being His ...because the Paul the same writer disagrees w/ you ...

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

Romans 8:9

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I think you need to examine the passage you posted carefully.

One Paul's question to John's was not unto what proper name were you baptized? ... but rather unto what were you baptized? Who had they identified with when they were baptized. There baptism was not in obedience to Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, Jesus had been baptize under John's baptism also. Does this invalidate his baptism?

The key to Paul's message is telling these disciples that they were believe on Him ... the possesor of the Name ... and come after Him ... Christ Jesus.

They had identified in their baptism unto the repentance that John preached but had not believed on the death and resurrection Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.

When they believed they then identified themselves with name/person of Jesus Christ, our Savior.

This is really it. I gotta go!!!!!


Act 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

This was their response when they had heard what Paul said. They were re-baptized in Jesus name.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

This is really it. I gotta go!!!!!


Act 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

This was their response when they had heard what Paul said. They were re-baptized in Jesus name.

I hate ask since you are gone, but were these in Acts 19, Trinitarians who loved and followed the Lord Jesus but had previously been baptised in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit?