Hallelujah!!!!!!! Honesty at Last!!!!!!!!!!

[SDG]

Please address why the Tabernacle must fit Acts 2:38 as seen by PAJCers ... there is no scripture for this ... just manly interpretations.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

a 1988 symposium ... I'll get the exact source later.

Ok thanks.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by mizpeh
What would have happened if he did not obey God and become circumcised 14-16 years later after he was accounted righteous?

.

Very simple.....he would have been cut off!!

Would the same thing happen if a believer was not baptised in Jesus name and received a spiritual circumcision? Would that person be cut off? Would this mean, according to your view of salvation, that one is saved at faith and repentance and then are no longer saved if they aren't baptized in Jesus' name? Col 2

[SDG]

In the same symposium he offers that instead of using the laver as a type ... he says ....

circumcision as a type of water baptism [is] more satisfying and biblically based.

One could have hoped, however, that he would have included a discussion of the two other divinely appointed types of water baptism: the flood of Noah (I Peter 3:20-21) and the crossing of the Red Sea (I Corinthians 10 1-2).

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I'll try to be a little more clear:

I believe that we are justified by faith, as the scripture delcares. I believe that happens at the point that a sinner puts their trust in the cross for their "right standing" with God. This is NOT an easy believism. I describe this as a person "signing over" the title deed to their life to Jesus Christ. This is a watershed event in someone's life.

I believe, at that point ONLY, is a person "qualified" to be water baptized. I think many are too quick to get someone to the water. I would rather someone wait and really think about it than hurry to the water.

Why do you equate justification with salvation? Are they the same thing? I'm not so sure.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Why do you equate justification with salvation? Are they the same thing? I'm not so sure.

oh boy.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

to fulfill all righteousness .... Ron. Please address why the Tabernacle must fit Acts 2:38 as seen by PAJCers ... there is no scripture for this ... just manly interpretations.

I am at work presently, so will answer this later.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by mizpeh
Why do you equate justification with salvation? Are they the same thing? I'm not so sure.

Dan, your response to my question is "oh boy."

MOW says we are justified by faith and saved. Sabellius says we are justified by faith and not yet saved. Which is it? Is justification the same as salvation?

Dan, what do you say? or even better what do you think the Bible says?

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Chan

I don't agree that they are declared innocent! The Bible is clear that they are declared guilty. What makes it justification is that Jesus bore their punishment for them. There is no basis for punishment if they've been declared innocent.

They ARE declared based upon the shed blood of Jesus Christ. We are guilty in sin. We are not declared "innocent" as if we had done nothing. We are declared innocent in light of the "evidence" of the cross in satisfying the requirement for shedding blood. That is what justification means. We are declared "JUSTIFIED" when we trust or present to God what He did for us instead of what we do for Him. If I understand it correctly, it is a legal term and fits perfectly with what Jesus did for us as described by Paul.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Dan, your response to my question is "oh boy."

MOW says we are justified by faith and saved. Sabellius says we are justified by faith and not yet saved. Which is it? Is justification the same as salvation?

Dan, what do you say? or even better what do you think the Bible says?

Lets talk about it here ....
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...?t=706&page=12