This thread is about whatever it needs to be about. Reading the scripture a few days ago, I believe it's about unrepentant folks, but then that's the whole scary part sometimes - how do we know? That was my original question.
Right. I gotcha. Classic case of posting late and not reading before posting....LOL!
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The power of our forgiving others, whether they be sinner or saint, is seen in the following verses.
Mat 6:14 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. Mat 6:15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
A quick study of the Greek word used for "forgive" (aphiemi) implies that one is putting away the transgression done to them. These would seem to indicate that our forgiving of transgressions should match those of our heavenly Fathers, who casts our sins "as far as the East is from the West".
In studying the following scriptures on unity and forgiveness, I have a question I'd like to throw out for discussion.
When we come to Christ and put off our old self, we become new and like Him. He has forgiven us and it's written below that we are to forgive others and forget their wrongdoings. I'm with it so far.
Then Ephesians 5:3 starts with BUT and lists several things that should not be among us.
If these things are among us and are a struggle with some, the scriptures say to not be partners with them.
When do we just forgive and forget? Just because someone is looked at as a Christian do we just accept that they are not struggling with any of those things listed and love them as Christ loves them, or not be partners with them?
Since their heart is only known by God, how can we be SURE?
Ephesians 4
Unity in the Body of Christ
2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—
22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Ephesians 5
1 Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
hey sis,
I read this thread in its entirity and there were some excellent things that were stated. God truly knows the heart of everyone, so how can we know? I believe it was Prax that gave scripture within this thread that kind of sums it up " you shall know them by thier fruits". The one verse that you mention in this post (Eph 5:7) "therefore do not be partners with them" also means do not partake of thier actions in regard to the previous verses. Paul was telling the Ephesians not to partner with the world who were unbeleivers.
Hold on a minute now. Are we required to forgive if the other person does not ask for forgiveness? If we are then God expects something from us He doesn't even expect of Himself.
Hold on a minute now. Are we required to forgive if the other person does not ask for forgiveness? If we are then God expects something from us He doesn't even expect of Himself.
This is where I'm really questioning it!!!!
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Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
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Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
Hold on a minute now. Are we required to forgive if the other person does not ask for forgiveness? If we are then God expects something from us He doesn't even expect of Himself.
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our tresspasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us, but only after they ask for it.
Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory forever. Amen.
We cannot be forgiven by God unless we have forgiven others. There is no disclaimer like I typed above that keeps us from forgiving others just because they don't ask.
And God expects a lot out of us that He doesn't expect from Himself. We cannot compare ourselves to God.
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I never looked any closer at forgiveness than what I thought it really meant, but I looked closer in the Greek and it also says, "let alone, let it be".
What that means, in some instances, is that you are not going to change the person in the wrong, but you can change the way you view them. You can get over the anger and let it go. Their mistake does not have to be mine nor does it have to affect me in a large way.
You certainly wouldn't place your life in their hands in any type of a relationship, but you can get to the place where you view them through the eyes of God - Sorry for the place they have found themselves to be or to have become.
We are not going to generally forget anything that has happened to us in our lives. That would include circumstances that have occurred to people close to us, but we can go on, with the Lord's help, and leave that person/situation in His hands.
I remember a couple that hurt us terribly. I cried out to God, "Why won't you do something?" He said, "I cannot excude my wrath suddenly."
Nine years later He removed those people from my life - forever. Nine years earlier I may have reacted differently. Today I'm a little more mature and can say that I am truly sorry for how it ended for them.
I'm thankful that He does take his time and gives us space to repent. I would have been toast a long time ago.
So, in a recapping - we just have to let it alone and let it go.
Now, if it comes down to a person being in my midst when they haven't made things right, as I believe you discussed not being sure of a person that doesn't or hasn't ask for forgiveness, then I can distance myself from them. If it is my job or in my power to protect those around me - I have to stand between those I protect and that person. Sort of like the Mother Hen over her chicks. That would be only if it is within my boundaries to do so.
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