Bott 2023

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by n david

Tennie McCarty and Shades of Hope was promoted by Mickey and by Misty Calk, who was brought up towards the end. One of the things McCarty and SOH does is "Inner Child Therapy," which is trying to go back into your childhood to determine if there's some kind of unresolved trauma or issues. This is one of my main objections to therapists. I don't believe in going back to the past and dredging up potential trauma or issues. Especially not as an Apostolic who believes in regeneration. The past is under the blood, leave it there.

Just offering my thoughts on the highlighted portion, judging from our past discussions we’re not going to agree on much. Not looking to debate or argue, just putting in my two cents.

The past is not the past if it is still is present with you. I’m sorry to say this yet, many in the church still struggle heavily because there are issues in their past that they have not gotten victory over. Not to be funny, yet it’s more than just “I skinned my knee when I was 8”. I’m talking about sexual perversions, parental issues, etc. this will affect a child’s spirit heavily. They take that into adult hood, in the church or not and it affects them. We can blindly say, it’s under the blood, yet is it? If it was, why is it coming up?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Maybe the stigma has been removed and now they’re not afraid to talk about it!?

Just hope by them “talking” about it, isn’t going to give them some sort of false premise that their “condition” is normal and thereby accept it…..

[jediwill83]

Im sitting on the edge of my bed struggling to work through my thoughts on this topic. I have a lot of first hand experience masking through my "issues" pretending everything is ok.


Some of these issues do indeed stem from childhood.


I also know what its like to recognize when others who behave as if they have no issues and they rail against those with this issue and that issue only for them to drop their mask and reveal that they too have deep struggles stemming from the past.


The enemy isolates.


One way he isolates is encouraging you to think that you are alone in your struggle.


I dont know if Im misreading the room in this discussion but I almost get the feeling that some of you would be more comfortable if people would be less transparent with their struggles and pretend everything is a ok than to be open and honest.


I used to attend POA.


The outreach they are doing is phenomenal.


Ive seen it with my own eyes.


We like to believe that we are so spiritual that we are above such mundane things like trauma and addiction.


We arent.


The last two weeks Ive woken up weeping and hyperventilating from anxiety.


Ive had many things over the years that God has helped me with and still many things that weigh on my mind and my spirit.


Sometimes after we have had a victory, the battle preceeding the victory can leave wounds and scars.


There are times where things can trigger flashbacks for me and mentally and emotionally I feel like Im in a different time...a worse time.


It takes a bit of time for me to reacclimate myself to the reality of my current circumstances.


Sometimes my wife struggles and I flashback to that same panicked emotional and place.


The hypervigilence...trying to prepare for a battle that I dont know how long will last...or even if we will come out of it.


I believe that the spirit of what Sis Mickey was trying to convey is that no matter your current struggle, that you can come out.


We we continue to provide an envirionment where we are not bearing the burdens of others we cannot fulfill the law of Christ.


Thats not something you do in a one time altar service.


Its what you do through connection, relationship and accountability.


What happens in our altar services?


Buncha folks shouting, getting loud telling God what He needs to do to fix someones life thats at the end of their rope?


Thats not bearing their burden...and its certainly not been a way that MY burdens get lightened or lifted.


When someone is able to drop the mask and be vulnerable Ive seen amazing miracles of ministry occur.


Just some thoughts and opinions here.


Lotta people lately out of nowhere doing something tragic that nobody expected and Id hate the thought that something I said, did or promoted contributed to someone not feeling like they could be real about what they were dealing with.

[seguidordejesus]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Im sitting on the edge of my bed struggling to work through my thoughts on this topic. I have a lot of first hand experience masking through my "issues" pretending everything is ok.


Some of these issues do indeed stem from childhood.


I also know what its like to recognize when others who behave as if they have no issues and they rail against those with this issue and that issue only for them to drop their mask and reveal that they too have deep struggles stemming from the past.


The enemy isolates.


One way he isolates is encouraging you to think that you are alone in your struggle.


I dont know if Im misreading the room in this discussion but I almost get the feeling that some of you would be more comfortable if people would be less transparent with their struggles and pretend everything is a ok than to be open and honest.


I used to attend POA.


The outreach they are doing is phenomenal.


Ive seen it with my own eyes.


We like to believe that we are so spiritual that we are above such mundane things like trauma and addiction.


We arent.


The last two weeks Ive woken up weeping and hyperventilating from anxiety.


Ive had many things over the years that God has helped me with and still many things that weigh on my mind and my spirit.


Sometimes after we have had a victory, the battle preceeding the victory can leave wounds and scars.


There are times where things can trigger flashbacks for me and mentally and emotionally I feel like Im in a different time...a worse time.


It takes a bit of time for me to reacclimate myself to the reality of my current circumstances.


Sometimes my wife struggles and I flashback to that same panicked emotional and place.


The hypervigilence...trying to prepare for a battle that I dont know how long will last...or even if we will come out of it.


I believe that the spirit of what Sis Mickey was trying to convey is that no matter your current struggle, that you can come out.


We we continue to provide an envirionment where we are not bearing the burdens of others we cannot fulfill the law of Christ.


Thats not something you do in a one time altar service.


Its what you do through connection, relationship and accountability.


What happens in our altar services?


Buncha folks shouting, getting loud telling God what He needs to do to fix someones life thats at the end of their rope?


Thats not bearing their burden...and its certainly not been a way that MY burdens get lightened or lifted.


When someone is able to drop the mask and be vulnerable Ive seen amazing miracles of ministry occur.


Just some thoughts and opinions here.


Lotta people lately out of nowhere doing something tragic that nobody expected and Id hate the thought that something I said, did or promoted contributed to someone not feeling like they could be real about what they were dealing with.

Spot on. The emotional orgasm of a Sunday night service might be nice (that's debatable), but it's not where the real healing happens.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus

Spot on. The emotional orgasm of a Sunday night service might be nice (that's debatable), but it's not where the real healing happens.

Oof...you went there. 😅

[n david]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Just offering my thoughts on the highlighted portion, judging from our past discussions we’re not going to agree on much. Not looking to debate or argue, just putting in my two cents.

Aw, there's always hope. Maybe. Perhaps.

Too hard to break up the paragraph below to respond (I know, I know, not debating or arguing)

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

The past is not the past if it is still is present with you. I’m sorry to say this yet, many in the church still struggle heavily because there are issues in their past that they have not gotten victory over. Not to be funny, yet it’s more than just “I skinned my knee when I was 8”. I’m talking about sexual perversions, parental issues, etc. this will affect a child’s spirit heavily. They take that into adult hood, in the church or not and it affects them. We can blindly say, it’s under the blood, yet is it? If it was, why is it coming up?

You're right. Some folk don't leave the past in the past. God is able to heal. God is able to make us new if we allow Him to do so. That means we have to release the past, the hurts, and the trauma (however heinous or awful) and completely forgive those who have harmed us.

Cody Marks preached an incredible message I found on YouTube "Done with Doeg." It's a message about forgiveness. It's very convicting and everyone should listen to it. He talks about childhood hurt and trauma around 30:15 into the message.

The key is the person has to forgive and let it go. It's coming up because they haven't let it go.

What can a psychologist do that God cannot?

Understand my frame of mind is that I hate taking medicine or going to the doctor. If I get so much as a sniffle from a cold or plain allergies, my first instinct is to pray for healing, not to schedule a doctor's appointment. Most of the time, I have to go through sickness. Sadly, God isn't a genie who answers every request for healing, but I ask anyway. I'm not sure, if faced with a serious disease, what I would do. But I believe I would likely spend far more time in prayer with God than meeting with a doctor. Because my faith isn't in a man or medicine, my faith is in God. What can the doctor do that God cannot?

This is the underlying issue with this mental health propaganda. In my humble opinion, talking with a psychologist for 30 minutes or an hour is silently stating that there's more power and help in that short talk with the therapist than there is with God.

Either He's a "Wonderful Counselor" or He's not. Either He's a "Prince of Peace" or He's not.

[n david]

Rev. Cody Marks - Done with Doeg.

[seguidordejesus]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Oof...you went there. 😅

I'm surprised the forum let it through

[n david]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Im sitting on the edge of my bed struggling to work through my thoughts on this topic. I have a lot of first hand experience masking through my "issues" pretending everything is ok.

Some of these issues do indeed stem from childhood.

I also know what its like to recognize when others who behave as if they have no issues and they rail against those with this issue and that issue only for them to drop their mask and reveal that they too have deep struggles stemming from the past.

I don't believe anyone is railing against anyone with issues. What has been discussed is promoting visiting psychologists and getting therapy from those who aren't Apostolic and using humanistic methods.

Originally Posted by jediwill83

The enemy isolates.

One way he isolates is encouraging you to think that you are alone in your struggle.

I dont know if Im misreading the room in this discussion but I almost get the feeling that some of you would be more comfortable if people would be less transparent with their struggles and pretend everything is a ok than to be open and honest.

I believe you're misreading the room. The issue isn't that people are broken. The issue is where leaders in the organization are telling them to go to find healing.

Originally Posted by jediwill83

I used to attend POA. The outreach they are doing is phenomenal. I've seen it with my own eyes.

No argument there.

Originally Posted by jediwill83

We like to believe that we are so spiritual that we are above such mundane things like trauma and addiction.

We arent.

I don't think anyone here actually believes that.

Originally Posted by jediwill83

I believe that the spirit of what Sis Mickey was trying to convey is that no matter your current struggle, that you can come out.

I could agree with her if that was what she had said.

Originally Posted by jediwill83

We we continue to provide an envirionment where we are not bearing the burdens of others we cannot fulfill the law of Christ. Thats not something you do in a one time altar service. Its what you do through connection, relationship and accountability.

What happens in our altar services?

Buncha folks shouting, getting loud telling God what He needs to do to fix someones life thats at the end of their rope?

Thats not bearing their burden...and its certainly not been a way that MY burdens get lightened or lifted.

When someone is able to drop the mask and be vulnerable Ive seen amazing miracles of ministry occur.

This is very good. I agree with you that we should bear one another's burdens. That's what the body of Christ should do. And no, it isn't done once at the altar. That's a subject worthy of discussing, though it isn't the topic here.

Again, this is about leadership telling people to seek healing from unbelievers.

To note: had Mickey got up and talked about the need for each local church to form some sort of group that deals with addictions or trauma, I would have been clapping from my living room. If she had even stood and implored Apostolics to become licensed counselors and use their calling to offer Godly and scriptural guidance to those who need help, I would have supported it.

But she didn't do that. She encouraged people to go to a therapist and mentioned two who aren't Apostolic who she personally endorses. She did mention one Apostolic counselor who helped her granddaughter.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by n david

I don't believe anyone is railing against anyone with issues. What has been discussed is promoting visiting psychologists and getting therapy from those who aren't Apostolic and using humanistic methods.


I believe you're misreading the room. The issue isn't that people are broken. The issue is where leaders in the organization are telling them to go to find healing.


No argument there.


I don't think anyone here actually believes that.


I could agree with her if that was what she had said.



This is very good. I agree with you that we should bear one another's burdens. That's what the body of Christ should do. And no, it isn't done once at the altar. That's a subject worthy of discussing, though it isn't the topic here.

Again, this is about leadership telling people to seek healing from unbelievers.

To note: had Mickey got up and talked about the need for each local church to form some sort of group that deals with addictions or trauma, I would have been clapping from my living room. If she had even stood and implored Apostolics to become licensed counselors and use their calling to offer Godly and scriptural guidance to those who need help, I would have supported it.

But she didn't do that. She encouraged people to go to a therapist and mentioned two who aren't Apostolic who she personally endorses. She did mention one Apostolic counselor who helped her granddaughter.

In my personal experience, the Apostolics equipped for counseling are few and far between. You know how much mess Ive heard over pulpits mocking the idea of "sitting in a pastors office feeding troubled people peppermints"?