NT verses about who Jesus was/is - Page 6

coksiw · #51 08-10-2019, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCsenior

1 Timothy 3:16 and John 1:14
"God (the Word) was manifested in the flesh (as Jesus)."

So far so good, for you ... but, you REFUSE to believe this:

God the Word was with God the Father

John 1:1-2 NKJV
"In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God."

Give it up, pal ... you're toast.

Oh wait, you're right after all ...
The Word was with the Father in His dreams!
Yeah, that's it.
.

Lol.

You didn't read what I said about John 1.

1) The scripture says "the Word was with God.", not the Word was with the Father.
2) "The Word was with the Father in His dreams!" I didn't say that. Please go back to post 25, see what I said. That being said, yes the incarnation was God's plan from the beginning, see Gen 3:15.

BCSenior, I was Trinitarian, and while I was, I went to a theology institute. I know what you believe very well and the arguments for it. I studied Oneness as a false doctrine in that institute as well. I'm not an ignorant of your arguments and thoughts.

One thing, trinitarians don't call that "manifestations", why do you use that term?

Regarding this:

Quote:

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will come ... and ...
"He will teach you all things" (John 14:26).
All spiritual things.

Those who are not born-again ...
will NOT have all spiritual things taught to them.
True in both OT and NT.

Let's quote the whole verse:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Do you really think this verse is saying that the Spirit will reveal to the people after the Apostles (e.g. the Second Council of Nicaea) a new doctrine that the Apostles didn't preach?

The plain reading of the verse tells me that the Spirit will bring the things that Jesus said to their remembrance and will give them full understanding of what Jesus said also in the context of the Scripture available to them (OT).

Also, the Church was founded by the Apostles. They got the authority to set the doctrinal foundation of the Church from Jesus, and we need to "continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine" Acts 2:42. Any other doctrine or Gospel or "new revelation" that came after that is all garbage. Trinitarianism happens to be one of those "revelations" that came after the apostles.

Evang.Benincasa · #52 08-10-2019, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCsenior

Give it up, pal ... you're toast.

BCsenior are you feeling ok?

Michael The Disciple · #53 08-11-2019, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Our recourse is to start with the foundation of truth rather than in the middle or end.

Lets start here.

The battle over who Jesus is between Oneness and Trinity is NOT over whether Jesus is God but rather how many Gods are there.

If God is one and Jesus is God no one else can be. So if we start with the foundation of Duet 6:4 there must be a way Jesus is the only God and yet....be his Son.

Trinity fails here because the doctrine itself sets out to assert there is more than one who is God.

Among the scores of Trinitarian believers I have discussed with the consensus of their doctrine seems to be this.

God is one in being but not in person.

There are three co equal, co eternal persons, each one DISTINCT from the other.

This they declare to be ONE GOD.

In this view each of the three persons of God (God persons) is God apart from or distinct from the other two. The other two are always distinct from the other one.

And yet...this is a so called One God belief.

It definitely teaches if not outright three Gods at minimum three GOD PERSONS.

So the battle lines are drawn.

Oneness believes in one God the Father who manifests himself through Jesus Christ and three God persons of which Jesus is number two.

Correcting myself here.

The last sentence of this post was supposed to read:

Oneness believes in one God the Father who manifests himself through Jesus Christ and Trinity believes in three God persons of which Jesus is number two.

Michael The Disciple · #54 08-11-2019, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCsenior

It's a-gonna take some time to absorb all of this!

Meanwhile ...

I'm only interested in the NT, and you should be also!
I've already explained why God did not reveal Himself
as 3 Manifestations in the OT.

Jesus often prayed to His Father in heaven!

Several verses clearly say that Jesus was equal to the Father!

BC

Did you actually read my post number 28 in this thread? Or did you simply see Exodus 3 and brush it aside because it is Old Testament?

Remember.....Peter uses this in Acts 3:13 (New Testament) to tell us WHO IS THE FATHER OF JESUS CHRIST.

BCsenior · #55 08-11-2019, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coksiw

Trinitarianism happens to be one of those "revelations" that came after the apostles.

No, as I have shown to you in MANY NT verses,
the Triune Godhead is obviously revealed in the NT.

Anyone who ignores/rejects these verses is ignoring/rejecting the NT.
Now, if you claim that the NT has been tampered with, that's another story.

It's very simple: either one believes the NT, or one does not.

There are MANY MILLIONS of so-called "believers" in the cults/sects
who do NOT believe in the NT ... they prefer to believe in false doctrines which teach AGAINST the NT. These people are NOT born-again ...
... they do NOT have the precious Holy Spirit INSIDE ...
(and they are NOT being taught all spiritual things, John 14:26).
.

BCsenior · #56 08-11-2019, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Oneness believes in one God the Father who manifests himself through Jesus Christ -- and Trinity believes in three God persons of which Jesus is number two.

Problem is ... the NT clearly teaches ... the Word = God = Jesus

So, you refuse to believe in the NT. Simple.

BCsenior · #57 08-11-2019, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

BCsenior are you feeling ok?

(1) Art thou a Pentecostal Oneness evangelist?
(2) Do you understand what the baptism with the Holy Spirit is?
(3) Do you understand that all of the NT church leaders,
the 5 offices (Eph 4:11), all had the baptism with the Holy Spirit?
.

coksiw · #58 08-11-2019, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCsenior

No, as I have shown to you in MANY NT verses,
the Triune Godhead is obviously revealed in the NT.

Anyone who ignores/rejects these verses is ignoring/rejecting the NT.
Now, if you claim that the NT has been tampered with, that's another story.

It's very simple: either one believes the NT, or one does not.

There are MANY MILLIONS of so-called "believers" in the cults/sects
who do NOT believe in the NT ... they prefer to believe in false doctrines which teach AGAINST the NT. These people are NOT born-again ...
... they do NOT have the precious Holy Spirit INSIDE ...
(and they are NOT being taught all spiritual things, John 14:26).
.

You definitely ignored everything I said.

Why don’t you answer to the fact that the majority of Christians where comfortable with the NT language and modalism (Oneness) and the Trinity wasn’t a thing until much after? Do you actually read about what the trinitarian theologians say about that? They acknowledge that most early Christians were modalist.

Could you please answer to these two questions?

How do you explain this?

Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
— Revelation 21:6-7

Who is the Father then?

How do you explain the fact that Jesus said in Matthew 28:19 that you baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit but the Apostles baptized only in Jesus’ name?

Evang.Benincasa · #59 08-11-2019, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCsenior

Art thou

Evang.Benincasa · #60 08-11-2019, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCsenior

No, as I have shown to you in MANY NT verses,
the Triune Godhead is obviously revealed in the NT.

Anyone who ignores/rejects these verses is ignoring/rejecting the NT.
Now, if you claim that the NT has been tampered with, that's another story.

It's very simple: either one believes the NT, or one does not.

There are MANY MILLIONS of so-called "believers" in the cults/sects
who do NOT believe in the NT ... they prefer to believe in false doctrines which teach AGAINST the NT. These people are NOT born-again ...
... they do NOT have the precious Holy Spirit INSIDE ...
(and they are NOT being taught all spiritual things, John 14:26).
.

Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.

Sorry, Mr Three gods believer, the Bible says God is ONE.

So, what are you looking to achieve here? Trying to convert us to your Satanic religion? Are you here as a messenger of Satan looking to lead poor neophytes into your Trinitarian soul sucking doctrine!!!!