Post trib doctrine = Christ terrorizes His bride

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Chapters 1-3 have nothing to do with chronology.

I'm not so quick to say that. I believe the order of things as chosen by the Holy Spirit inspiring the writer may very well be rather important. The 7 churches weren't just randomly chosen, their order is significant. To some, they might symbolize periods of church history, to others the progression towards apostasy, to others phases of a believer's life, etc., etc. Now, I don't profess to know for sure what they mean... but I can't help but believe that they mean something significant, and their order is important.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Interesting point to ponder.

How can they not have anything to do with chronology? The seals open the book... once the book is opened, the angels with the 7 trumpets sound, and once the final angel has sounded his trumpet, the angels with the 7 bowls step forward.

I've always wondered why so many scholars assume that these events overlap. For example, how can an event in the seals (that only affects a fourth of the earth), be taking place as part of a trumpet judgment (that only affects a third of the earth), as part of a bowl judgment (that affects the entire world)?

I think the progression in the text is obvious... the judgments increase in both scope and intensity with each phase of judgment. The seals are a breaking forth of the judgments that are contained in the book, and they affect only a quarter of the world. Trumpets, are meant to warn the world that judgment is coming, and these only affect a third of the world. The bowl judgments... they are global and are poured out in full strength, without mixture.

Revelation 8 clearly shows Trumpets follow the Seals:

"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Revelation 8 clearly shows Trumpets follow the Seals:

"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."

Amen, see, there is a chronological order in the presentation.

[Esaias]

Is the "wrath of God" solely an end time tribulation event? If so, I'm sure Hitler and Stalin will be glad to know that.

If not, then the whole pretrib, mid trib/pre wrath doctrine falls apart like Humpty Dumpty.

[Sean]

No, this wrath is the event of events....



For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


What a lousy place for a Groom to keep his bride.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Sean

No, this wrath is the event of events....



For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


What a lousy place for a Groom to keep his bride.

Sean:Jesus, you take me to the nicest places."rolls eyes"

[Sean]

.......Just not to your wrath, Lord.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Sean

.......Just not to your wrath, Lord.

could be worse....could be Motel 6

[Sean]

LOL

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Sean

The Jews lived in a "safe zone"....


22 And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the Lord in the midst of the earth.

23 And I will put a division between my people and thy people: to morrow shall this sign be.




There is no "safe zone" depicted for the saints during the Great Tribulation. The Antichrist, unlike Pharaoh, will be given power to make war with the saints of the Great Tribulation and overcome them.

So God is able to make a distinction between his people and the objects of His wrath, and his people don't have to be removed from the earth for this to be so.

But, again, what of the following:
The following from Matt 24 doesn't sound too pleasant:

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened."

His saints--people belonging to the bride--will be hated and killed during the tribulation. Jesus even pronounces a woe on the especially vulnerable of his followers who will be affected by such tribulation. But those who endure to the end will be saved. Thank God the days will be shortened for the Elects' sake.