Do you think Revelations is enigmatic?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You must be a professor at a Bible college.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It reveals that the wickedness we endure in this world will be judged, Christ will return, and the Messianic Kingdom will be stablished. And after this, it reveals a New Creation. And so we wait and pray in loving expectancy for our Deliverer to arrive.

But, how does it "REVEAL" these things when you yourself said:

Originally Posted by Aquila

All one can do is teach the Revelation as is. One is free to speculate as a watchman on the wall who thinks they might see movement in the shadows. No man should declare with any certainty that their understanding is absolutely correct.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

But, how does it "REVEAL" these things when you yourself said:

Hey this is what prophecy teaching is all about. Apocalypse means the revealing, but the prophecy teacher says it's a mystery? What are they actually teaching you?

[Evang.Benincasa]

One is FREE to speculate?

Revelation 22:18-19?

Seriously?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

All one can do is teach the Revelation as is. One is free to speculate as a watchman on the wall who thinks they might see movement in the shadows.

Watchman who speculates while looking at shadows blows false alarms.
Types and shadows was the Old Testament, not the New Testament. Old, Jesus concealed, the New, is Jesus revealed.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

But I'll be honest. Preterism bothers me in that it insists that Satan is bound. Anyone who has ever worked with deliverance ministry, spiritual warfare, and who might simply watch the nightly news can testify that Satan is indeed not bound. And if events like the plague, the Great Depression, WWI, WWII, the Holocaust, dropping the atom bomb on Japan, Vietnam, and 9/11 is taking place during the Millennium, this Millennium sucks. In fact, if this is the Millennium, I'd be hesitant to see the New Creation. .

Aquila, PP sees Satan bound in the sense of Matthew 12:29

Matthew 12:29King James Version (KJV)
29..Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

And that because he is bound we have the authority of Ephesians 1:20-22

Ephesians 1:20-22King James Version (KJV)
20..Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21..Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22..And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

but we still have Spiritual warfare to content with

John 18:36
John 18:36King James Version (KJV)
36..Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

So he is bound and we have authority, but we didn't get rid of him altogether.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

But I'll be honest. Preterism bothers me in that it insists that Satan is bound. Anyone who has ever worked with deliverance ministry, spiritual warfare, and who might simply watch the nightly news can testify that Satan is indeed not bound. And if events like the plague, the Great Depression, WWI, WWII, the Holocaust, dropping the atom bomb on Japan, Vietnam, and 9/11 is taking place during the Millennium, this Millennium sucks. In fact, if this is the Millennium, I'd be hesitant to see the New Creation.

It's a matter of what bondage means. Does it mean he cannot do anything?

Have you ever bound the devil in a situation in your prayers? Whatever you bind on earth will be bound heaven.

Col 2 says Jesus SPOILED the devil. Jesus said you cannot spoil a strongman unless you first bind him. So if He spoiled the devil, and you cannot spoil a strongman til you first bind him, would it not mean that Jesus bound the devil? The problem is determining to what degree he is bound. We assume total and complete bondage.

But the Bible often made statem,nets that people totally misunderstood. They assumed it meant something but found out they were very wrong.

For example, what would you say if I told you the devil was destroyed?

Pause and think of that.

Now read this:

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

. Jesus was manifest in flesh to destroy the devil. Through death he would destroy the devil.

What people assume this might mean is not what it actually means, obviously. It did not destroy the devil's existence. It dealt a lethal blow to his power.

And that is fulfilled. And we have a problem thinking BOUND cannot possible be fulfilled after reading the devil was destroyed?

It is not that the devil is not bound, it is what we think bondage speaks about.

You said Jesus must be a flake if this is the millennium and the devil is bound. However, your same reasoning flies in the face of Heb 2:14 where we reads the devil is destroyed. It's just that saying bondage must be the way you imagine it is simply not the truth. Bondage can be in degrees. And every time I write this explanation, you must not have noticed it. But when you read Rev 20 theory ugly you will find the bondage was strictly related to deceiving the nations in a SPECIFIFC ISSUE. To gather them together against the holy city. THat is what the bondage refers to.

No where does Rev 20 say the devil cannot cause crime and sin. Yet we are told he is destroyed in Heb 2:14 and he is still active. So it is the manner of understanding what God intended us to know by saying he is bound.

You assume things like wars cannot exist if he is bound. But what if that is not what God meant for you to understand at all? Like I said, if you had not know anything about the gospel and the word of God other than CHrist came and died on the cross, and you read Heb 2:14 you might be tempted to think Satan does not even exist any more. It said he was destroyed. But when oyou learn the destruction refers to a specific angle of disarming his Devils and taking those who want to be saved out from his prison, it all fits. It's not perhaps the way you would phrase it, but the bible did. And I claim that's the case with bondage in Rev 20 as well.

You seem to really struggle with thinking outside your box. You have to come to the conclusion that what you determined a term to mean may be offkey and somewhat incorrect compared to God's intention. If you cannot do that and are unwilling to do what multiplied hundreds of thousands have had to do with their beliefs at one time or other, you cannot think outside your box and simply believe you are right because you are right. Are you open enough to consider an alternative explanation, or are you closed to it?

[TK Burk]

I deleted my last posts because they took this thread in another direction. Trying to stay on subject.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Aquila, PP sees Satan bound in the sense of Matthew 12:29

Matthew 12:29King James Version (KJV)
29..Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

And that because he is bound we have the authority of Ephesians 1:20-22

Ephesians 1:20-22King James Version (KJV)
20..Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21..Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22..And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

but we still have Spiritual warfare to content with

John 18:36
John 18:36King James Version (KJV)
36..Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

So he is bound and we have authority, but we didn't get rid of him altogether.

Right. Add Heb 2: 14 with the word DESTROY to it and it all comes together.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Aquila, PP sees Satan bound in the sense of Matthew 12:29

Matthew 12:29King James Version (KJV)
29..Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

And that because he is bound we have the authority of Ephesians 1:20-22

Ephesians 1:20-22King James Version (KJV)
20..Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21..Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22..And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

but we still have Spiritual warfare to content with

John 18:36
John 18:36King James Version (KJV)
36..Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

So he is bound and we have authority, but we didn't get rid of him altogether.

So, Satan isn't bound. Nor are his demons. Do we have authority to bind his activities as they might affect us? Yes. Yet Satan roams freely deceiving as he finds the opportunity to do so.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (ESV)
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.