How can a Christian vote for Trump

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here are my thoughts on Hillary.

No politician in recent history has faced more scrutiny than Hillary Clinton. With every scandalous accusation after accusation, with every conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory, bipartisan committees, examiners, hearings, etc. have all reviewed the "facts" and cleared Hillary Clinton of any charge of criminal wrong doing. If she was above the law she wouldn't have had to repeatedly face such grueling examination and interrogation.

In nearly 30 years of trumped up charges, nothing has stuck. Let's face it. Either Hillary Clinton is the target of an organized political campaign to destroy her through false accusation and exaggeration, or her political enemies are the dumbest most incompetent men and women in politics.

Blind self delusion.

[Fionn mac Cumh]

The GOP had the foresight to know that Hillary was going to run for office. They dont care about those men that died in Benghazi. All they care about is making her look bad.

[deacon blues]

Did Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, GHW Bush, GW Bush, Barack Obama have any less political enemies than the Clintons? If so, what makes the Clintons so special that they possess more than everyone else? What's unique about them that they just happen to have an unusual amount of political foes?

Or could it be that after three decades walking like a duck, talking like a duck, and acting like a duck one gathers the idea that something is awry? Maybe, just maybe, the Clintons are masters at corruption. How did mafia kingpins go decades without jail time? Your argument is weak.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Fionn mac Cumh

The GOP had the foresight to know that Hillary was going to run for office. They dont care about those men that died in Benghazi. All they care about is making her look bad.

Let's say you're right. The fact remains four people died that didn't need to on her watch. She lied for weeks about what happened. She continually makes herself look bad she doesn't need anybody's help.

[aegsm76]

With Benghazi, in my opinion, it was not so much about what happened, but the cover-up/lies that tried to shift the responsibility.
Just switch Watergate for Benghazi.
With Watergate, it was not the actions of overzealous Nixon supporters that cost Nixon the POTUS, it was his attempt to cover it up.
He was unaware of their activity. When he heard of it he was horrified and decided to cover it up.
I believe the same type of thing happened in Libya. But the BHO admin was much more successful in their coverup.
Which is very scary, in my opinion.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Not the email investigation. The FBI did NOT clear her of wrongdoing. In fact, the FBI confirmed there was wrongdoing. Listen to Comey's presser again. He did not say she was cleared of wrongdoing. He confirmed she broke the law.

You're mistaken. There was no evidence of "criminal" wrong doing. The error was procedural.

It's like with my office. We deal with SSI (Sensitive Security Information). We had one TA take a thumb drive home with encrypted work files on it. That really wasn't a problem because it was standard practice to keep our thumb drives on our lanyards. Well, that individual's car was stolen later that evening. Guess what, he always took off his work lanyard and placed it in the glove box of his car! The car was found later after being ditched and set on fire. However, the jump drive and security badges were not located or identified in the wreckage. Of course this TA had to file a report that the SSI was stored on his thumb drive and was lost. There was a big fact finding review because of the nature of the data stored on his thumb drive.

The fact finding found one primary problem. While taking SSI home with us is technically not permitted in our security directives, it was established practice in the department. We were all guilty. This was to stop immediately. Due to the nature of the security violation being an issue of departmental procedure and the circumstances surrounding the lost thumb drive were out of the TA's control, they found that the TA was not guilty of any criminal wrong doing.

The result was a change in departmental procedure. No criminal charges filed.

That's what the FBI is trying to explain in the case of the missing emails. Yes, the FBI found that the use of a private email server was a reckless mishandling of what could be sensitive email. However, private email servers had been used in other governmental departments and had been used even in the State Department going all the way back to the Bush Administration. In fact, in 2007 the Bush Administration was discovered to have had over 22 MILLION emails deleted from a private network of email servers serving the Oval Office and all necessary departments. Private email servers were even being used under the Clinton Administration. So, while the use of a private email server was reckless and against security directives, it wasn't done with any criminal intent. It was past practice. The FBI admonished that emails not be handled in such a way and even promised that the FBI cannot promise leniency if another is found guilty of the same infraction from that point forward. You but your bottom dollar, governmental departments are not going to be using private servers any more, unless they want a scandal. There were also a few technical errors in her testimony. However, there is no evidence that Clinton willfully or knowingly provided false information. The FBI also made note that staff had used the inappropriate heading for a few classified emails. In addition, there is no evidence indicating that any emails stored on the private email server were compromised.

In the end it is a procedural issue, not a criminal issue.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Liberals only believe in the collective. The individual does not matter to them, no matter how much you might claim it does. Liberalism is designed to destroy the individual.

Liberals welcome all races, genders, sexual orientations, and ages. Let me promise you, if you want to be an "individual", you're welcome among the liberals. Liberals do believe in social obligation. We have a social obligation to protect the welfare of our society as a whole. The liberal concept is grounded in the notion of "justice". Not just justice in the sense of punishment for criminal offense, but more importantly, "justice" in the sense of what is necessary for a "just" society. Our values are in harmony with the biblical standard of "Justice". In fact, here's an excerpt from the Holman Bible Dictionary's definition of justice:

JUSTICE:
The order God seeks to reestablish in His creation where all people receive the benefits of life with Him. As love is for the New Testament, so justice is the central ethical idea of the Old Testament. The frequency of justice is sometimes missed by the reader due to a failure to realize that the wide range of the Hebrew word mishpat , particularly in passages that deal with the material and social necessities of life.

Nature of justice Justice has two major aspects. First, it is the standard by which penalties are assigned for breaking the obligations of the society. Second, justice is the standard by which the advantages of social life are handed out, including material goods, rights of participation, opportunities, and liberties. It is the standard for both punishment and benefits and thus can be spoken of as a plumb line. “I shall use justice as a plumb-line, and righteousness as a plummet” (Isaiah 28:17 , REB).

Often people think of justice in the Bible only in the first sense as God's wrath on evil. This aspect of justice indeed is present, such as the judgment mentioned in John 3:19 . Often more vivid words like “wrath” are used to describe punitive justice (Romans 1:18 ).

Justice in the Bible very frequently also deals with benefits. Cultures differ widely in determining the basis by which the benefits are to be justly distributed. For some it is by birth and nobility. For others the basis is might or ability or merit. Or it might simply be whatever is the law or whatever has been established by contracts. The Bible takes another possibility. Benefits are distributed according to need. Justice then is very close to love and grace. God “executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing” (Deuteronomy 10:18 , NRSV; compare Hosea 10:12; Isaiah 30:18 ).

Various needy groups are the recipients of justice. These groups include widows, orphans, resident aliens (also called “sojourners” or “strangers”), wage earners, the poor, and prisoners, slaves, and the sick (Job 29:12-17; Psalm 146:7-9; Malachi 3:5 ). Each of these groups has specific needs which keep its members from being able to participate in aspects of the life of their community. Even life itself might be threatened. Justice involves meeting those needs. The forces which deprive people of what is basic for community life are condemned as oppression (Micah 2:2; Ecclesiastes 4:1 ). To oppress is to use power for one's own advantage in depriving others of their basic rights in the community (see Mark 12:40 ). To do justice is to correct that abuse and to meet those needs (Isaiah 1:17 ). Injustice is depriving others of their basic needs or failing to correct matters when those rights are not met (Jeremiah 5:28; Job 29:12-17 ). Injustice is either a sin of commission or of omission.

The content of justice, the benefits which are to be distributed as basic rights in the community, can be identified by observing what is at stake in the passages in which “justice,” “righteousness,” and “judgment” occur. The needs which are met include land (Ezekiel 45:6-9; compare Micah 2:2; Micah 4:4 ) and the means to produce from the land, such as draft animals and millstones (Deuteronomy 22:1-4; Deuteronomy 24:6 ). These productive concerns are basic to securing other essential needs and thus avoiding dependency; thus the millstone is called the “life” of the person (Deuteronomy 24:6 ). Other needs are those essential for mere physical existence and well being: food (Deuteronomy 10:18; Psalm 146:7 ), clothing (Deuteronomy 24:13 ), and shelter (Psalm 68:6; Job 8:6 ). Job 22:5-9 ,Job 22:5-9,22:23; Job 24:1-12 decries the injustice of depriving people of each one of these needs, which are material and economic. The equal protection of each person in civil and judicial procedures is represented in the demand for due process ( Deuteronomy 16:18-20 ). Freedom from bondage is comparable to not being “in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and lack of everything” (Deuteronomy 28:48 NRSV).

Justice presupposes God's intention for people to be in community. When people had become poor and weak with respect to the rest of the community, they were to be strengthened so that they could continue to be effective members of the community—living with them and beside them (Leviticus 25:35-36 ). Thus biblical justice restores people to community. By justice those who lacked the power and resources to participate in significant aspects of the community were to be strengthened so that they could. This concern in Leviticus 25:1 is illustrated by the provision of the year of Jubilee, in which at the end of the fifty year period land is restored to those who had lost it through sale or foreclosure of debts ( Leviticus 25:28 ). Thus they regained economic power and were brought back into the economic community. Similarly, interest on loans was prohibited (Leviticus 25:36 ) as a process which pulled people down, endangering their position in the community.

These legal provisions express a further characteristic of justice. Justice delivers; it does not merely relieve the immediate needs of those in dire straits (Psalm 76:9; Isaiah 45:8; Isaiah 58:11; Isaiah 62:1-2 ). Helping the needy means setting them back on their feet, giving a home, leading to prosperity, restoration, ending the oppression (Psalm 68:5-10; Psalm 10:15-16; compare 107; Psalm 113:7-9 ). Such thorough justice can be socially disruptive. In the Jubilee year as some receive back lands, others lose recently-acquired additional land. The advantage to some is a disadvantage to others. In some cases the two aspects of justice come together. In the act of restoration, those who were victims of justice receive benefits while their exploiters are punished (1 Samuel 2:7-10; compare Luke 1:51-53; Luke 6:20-26 ).

The source of justice As the sovereign Creator of the universe, God is just (Psalm 99:1-4; Genesis 18:25; Deuteronomy 32:4; Jeremiah 9:24 ), particularly as the defender of all the oppressed of the earth (Psalm 76:9; Psalm 103:6; Jeremiah 49:11 ). Justice thus is universal (Psalm 9:7-9 ) and applies to each covenant or dispensation. Jesus affirmed for His day the centrality of the Old Testament demand for justice (Matthew 23:23 ). Justice is the work of the New Testament people of God (James 1:27 ).

God's justice is not a distant external standard. It is the source of all human justice (Proverbs 29:26; 2Chronicles 19:6,2 Chronicles 19:9 ). Justice is grace received and grace shared (2 Corinthians 9:8-10 ).

The most prominent human agent of justice is the ruler. The king receives God's justice and is a channel for it (Psalm 72:1; compare Romans 13:1-2 ,Romans 13:1-2,13:4 ). There is not a distinction between a personal, voluntary justice and a legal, public justice. The same caring for the needy groups of the society is demanded of the ruler (Psalm 72:4; Ezekiel 34:4; Jeremiah 22:15-16 ). Such justice was also required of pagan rulers (Daniel 4:27; Proverbs 31:8-9 ).

Justice is also a central demand on all people who bear the name of God. Its claim is so basic that without it other central demands and provisions of God are not acceptable to God. Justice is required to be present with the sacrificial system (Amos 5:21-24; Micah 6:6-8; Isaiah 1:11-17; Matthew 5:23-24 ), fasting (Isaiah 58:1-10 ), tithing (Matthew 23:23 ), obedience to the other commandments (Matthew 19:16-21 ), or the presence of the Temple of God (Jeremiah 7:1-7 ).

Justice in salvation Apart from describing God's condemnation of sin, Paul used the language and meaning of justice to speak of personal salvation. “The righteousness of God” represents God in grace bringing into the community of God through faith in Christ those who had been outside of the people of God (particularly in Romans but compare also Ephesians 2:12-13 ). See Law; Government; Poverty; Righteousness; Welfare.

Stephen Charles Mott
Source: http://www.studylight.org/dictionari....cgi?w=JUSTICE

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Blind self delusion.

Please point out something incorrect in my statement.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You're mistaken. There was no evidence of "criminal" wrong doing. The error was procedural.

It's like with my office. We deal with SSI (Sensitive Security Information). We had one TA take a thumb drive home with encrypted work files on it. That really wasn't a problem because it was standard practice to keep our thumb drives on our lanyards. Well, that individual's car was stolen later that evening. Guess what, he always took off his work lanyard and placed it in the glove box of his car! The car was found later after being ditched and set on fire. However, the jump drive and security badges were not located or identified in the wreckage. Of course this TA had to file a report that the SSI was stored on his thumb drive and was lost. There was a big fact finding review because of the nature of the data stored on his thumb drive.

The fact finding found one primary problem. While taking SSI home with us is technically not permitted in our security directives, it was established practice in the department. We were all guilty. This was to stop immediately. Due to the nature of the security violation being an issue of departmental procedure and the circumstances surrounding the lost thumb drive were out of the TA's control, they found that the TA was not guilty of any criminal wrong doing.

The result was a change in departmental procedure. No criminal charges filed.

That's what the FBI is trying to explain in the case of the missing emails. Yes, the FBI found that the use of a private email server was a reckless mishandling of what could be sensitive email. However, private email servers had been used in other governmental departments and had been used even in the State Department going all the way back to the Bush Administration. In fact, in 2007 the Bush Administration was discovered to have had over 22 MILLION emails deleted from a private network of email servers serving the Oval Office and all necessary departments. Private email servers were even being used under the Clinton Administration. So, while the use of a private email server was reckless and against security directives, it wasn't done with any criminal intent. It was past practice. The FBI admonished that emails not be handled in such a way and even promised that the FBI cannot promise leniency if another is found guilty of the same infraction from that point forward. You but your bottom dollar, governmental departments are not going to be using private servers any more, unless they want a scandal. There were also a few technical errors in her testimony. However, there is no evidence that Clinton willfully or knowingly provided false information. The FBI also made note that staff had used the inappropriate heading for a few classified emails. In addition, there is no evidence indicating that any emails stored on the private email server were compromised.

In the end it is a procedural issue, not a criminal issue.

Aquila, Comey actually stated that if anyone else had done what she had done, there would have been consequences. He actually said that. She exhibited gross negligence in the mishandling of classified documents. Gross negligence is all that's required for her to be prosecuted, not intent. If it were anyone else, she would be in jail.

Not only did she exhibit gross negligence, she actually thwarted the investigation by deleting over 30,000 e-mails prior to handing the rest over to the FBI. And those she did hand over, were printed out, not digital, which strips out any header information that would have been of use to a real investigation.

Add to that, that within the 17,000 of those e-mails the FBI later recovered, they found classified information. According to her, supposedly every one of those e-mails were personal, not government related. That was a blatant lie, yet the FBI and Obama's Department of Injustice refuse to do anything about it.

What she did was criminal, and if it were anyone else she'd be in prison. This was not procedural, this was pathological.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Fionn mac Cumh

The GOP had the foresight to know that Hillary was going to run for office. They dont care about those men that died in Benghazi. All they care about is making her look bad.

I don't know about that. I think Benghazi is a mess and I'm equally against demonizing any Republican over it. I sincerely believe that in 50 years our children or grandchildren will be watching, Frontline, and the Frontline investigative report will disclose the classified and Top Secret elements relating to what happened in Benghazi. It will be thoroughly explained what that data showed and why Hillary Clinton wasn't charged with any form of criminal negligence relating to what happened on that terrible day.

Remember, both Democrats and Republicans privy to the classified information about Benghazi have cleared Hillary Clinton. It's only a small sliver of radicals who refuse to accept the outcome of the hearings.