Dark Side of Pentecostalism (L)

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

We are blessed with colleges in our area where they can go and stay home which is healthier spiritually and financially. Many of our young folks go to college in fact I encourage them to. Even the girls I have told them they have no idea what will face them in the future and they might have to work and if so better to get an education to have a good education to have a good job than minimum wage job.

When I got into Pentecost, it seems there was an anti-education bias, but that seems to have faded over the years.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ILG

When I got into Pentecost, it seems there was an anti-education bias, but that seems to have faded over the years.

This is a red marker day - you and Bro. Epley are in agreement!!

[good samaritan]

I like a comment made by Bro. Tenney, "get a good education and get over it." For years I have known of pentecostals who frowned upon seminary because they believed that the best teaching was self teaching and God given revelation. I believe that we are moving away from this logic. I see good and bad for both sides. Education doesn't make you a better christian (look at the early apostles), but it does help open doors for you here in this world.

College isn't for some, but it is the best for others. I don't think there is many Pentecostal churches today who are discouraging their young people from college. Matter of fact they are probably encouraging it. We need to pray for the author. I don't understand how you can leave a Holy Ghost believing church to a denomination who doesn't believe the gifts are operating in the church today.

Sounds to me like he should ask for his money back. School wasn't the thing for him.

[Chateau d'If]

I enjoyed the article. Spot on.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

This is a red marker day - you and Bro. Epley are in agreement!!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Anyone against college is not in the real world. Very few live on family farms or have a family trade. Most have to get a trade somehow.

College is a scam:

http://mrconservative.com/2013/05/17...s-just-a-scam/


http://endoftheamericandream.com/arc...ey-making-scam

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com.../reviews4.html

http://m.thenewamerican.com/?url=htt...ogle.com/#2916

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Esaias

College is a scam:

http://mrconservative.com/2013/05/17...s-just-a-scam/


http://endoftheamericandream.com/arc...ey-making-scam

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com.../reviews4.html

http://m.thenewamerican.com/?url=htt...ogle.com/#2916

It can be if you do degree that isn't worth anything. My brother has made six figures because of a college degree. Try trying him its a scam.
Both me and my wife do pretty good with nursing degrees. Try telling all my nursing coworkers it's a scam. They would laugh at you.
Try telling telling friends of ours who make almost double six figures their college degree is a scam.

A lot of trades are from colleges: electrician, engineer, ac tech, machinest, welding etc.....


Its not a cure all but if used right it can propel people to a bright future.


Keep in mind a lot of these folks working in labor jobs with degree are those who scammed the system for grants and money while getting a degree in something that is not worth nothing.

[good samaritan]

The sad thing now is there is an overwhelming number leaving college and the number of jobs is getting fewer and fewer. Though, there probably is more out there today for those who have college than those who do not. It is sad how this country is becoming. My grandparents where able to provide for their families on one income with only a 3rd or 4th grade education. Today people's high school diploma isn't enough and usually it takes two incomes to meet today's standard of living.

Most of the industrial middle class jobs that once we thrived on are leaving this country. I met a 55-60 yr. old man Sunday that works part time at Burger King and can't even afford a house to live in. He has been sleeping under a overpass and going to a relative's small apartment to wash. He said he is on a waiting list to get into some government assisted housing that is currently full. I sometimes wonder if this country is receiving judgments from God. All the liberties we are granting for people to be practicing homosexuals, the infidelity, the violence, the melting pot of false religions, and the greed seems to have gone out of control.

I wish we were a christian nation again.

[Aquila]

I don't believe we can blame sinners for the disparity we see among our society. It's largely the powers that be who have set the rules for business and the economy.

In a "biblical society" we'd be neither Capitalist nor Socialist, but rather Distributist. For an explanation of Distributism try this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism

Distributism

Distributism (also known as distributionism[1] or distributivism[2]) is an economic ideology that developed in Europe in the late 19th and early 20th century based upon the principles of Catholic social teaching, especially the teachings of Pope Leo XIII in his encyclical Rerum Novarum and Pope Pius XI in Quadragesimo Anno.[3]

According to distributists, property ownership is a fundamental right[4] and the means of production should be spread as widely as possible rather than being centralized under the control of the state (state socialism), a few individuals (plutocracy), or corporations (corporatocracy). Distributism therefore advocates a society marked by widespread property ownership.[5] Co-operative economist Race Mathews, argues such a system is key to bringing about a just social order.[6]

Distributism has often been described in opposition to both socialism and capitalism,[7][8] which distributists see as equally flawed and exploitative.[9] Thomas Storck argues that "both socialism and capitalism are products of the European Enlightenment and are thus modernizing and anti-traditional forces. Further, some distributists argue that socialism is the logical conclusion of capitalism as capitalism's concentrated powers eventually capture the state, resulting in a form of socialism.[10][11] In contrast, distributism seeks to subordinate economic activity to human life as a whole, to our spiritual life, our intellectual life, our family life".[12]

Some have seen it more as an aspiration, which has been successfully realised in the short term by commitment to the principles of subsidiarity and solidarity (these being built into financially independent local cooperatives and small family businesses), though proponents also cite such periods as the Middle Ages as examples of the historical long-term viability of distributism.[13] Particularly influential in the development of distributist theory were Catholic authors G. K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc,[9] the Chesterbelloc, two of distributism's earliest and strongest proponents.[14][15]

More recently Pope Francis has brought distributism back into discussion, denouncing unfettered capitalism as tyranny in his 84-page apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium:


Just as the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills... A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules. To all this we can add widespread corruption and self-serving tax evasion, which has taken on worldwide dimensions. The thirst for power and possessions knows no limits.

[Aquila]

I also found this definition of "Justice" in the Holman Bible Dictionary to be of value:

Holman Bible Dictionary

Justice

The order God seeks to reestablish in His creation where all people receive the benefits of life with Him. As love is for the New Testament, so justice is the central ethical idea of the Old Testament. The frequency of justice is sometimes missed by the reader due to a failure to realize that the wide range of the Hebrew word mishpat , particularly in passages that deal with the material and social necessities of life.

Nature of justice Justice has two major aspects. First, it is the standard by which penalties are assigned for breaking the obligations of the society. Second, justice is the standard by which the advantages of social life are handed out, including material goods, rights of participation, opportunities, and liberties. It is the standard for both punishment and benefits and thus can be spoken of as a plumb line. “I shall use justice as a plumb-line, and righteousness as a plummet” (Isaiah 28:17 , REB).

Often people think of justice in the Bible only in the first sense as God's wrath on evil. This aspect of justice indeed is present, such as the judgment mentioned in John 3:19 . Often more vivid words like “wrath” are used to describe punitive justice (Romans 1:18 ).

Justice in the Bible very frequently also deals with benefits. Cultures differ widely in determining the basis by which the benefits are to be justly distributed. For some it is by birth and nobility. For others the basis is might or ability or merit. Or it might simply be whatever is the law or whatever has been established by contracts. The Bible takes another possibility. Benefits are distributed according to need. Justice then is very close to love and grace. God “executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing” (Deuteronomy 10:18 , NRSV; compare Hosea 10:12; Isaiah 30:18 ).

Various needy groups are the recipients of justice. These groups include widows, orphans, resident aliens (also called “sojourners” or “strangers”), wage earners, the poor, and prisoners, slaves, and the sick (Job 29:12-17; Psalm 146:7-9; Malachi 3:5 ). Each of these groups has specific needs which keep its members from being able to participate in aspects of the life of their community. Even life itself might be threatened. Justice involves meeting those needs. The forces which deprive people of what is basic for community life are condemned as oppression (Micah 2:2; Ecclesiastes 4:1 ). To oppress is to use power for one's own advantage in depriving others of their basic rights in the community (see Mark 12:40 ). To do justice is to correct that abuse and to meet those needs (Isaiah 1:17 ). Injustice is depriving others of their basic needs or failing to correct matters when those rights are not met (Jeremiah 5:28; Job 29:12-17 ). Injustice is either a sin of commission or of omission.

The content of justice, the benefits which are to be distributed as basic rights in the community, can be identified by observing what is at stake in the passages in which “justice,” “righteousness,” and “judgment” occur. The needs which are met include land (Ezekiel 45:6-9; compare Micah 2:2; Micah 4:4 ) and the means to produce from the land, such as draft animals and millstones (Deuteronomy 22:1-4; Deuteronomy 24:6 ). These productive concerns are basic to securing other essential needs and thus avoiding dependency; thus the millstone is called the “life” of the person (Deuteronomy 24:6 ). Other needs are those essential for mere physical existence and well being: food (Deuteronomy 10:18; Psalm 146:7 ), clothing (Deuteronomy 24:13 ), and shelter (Psalm 68:6; Job 8:6 ). Job 22:5-9 ,Job 22:5-9,22:23; Job 24:1-12 decries the injustice of depriving people of each one of these needs, which are material and economic. The equal protection of each person in civil and judicial procedures is represented in the demand for due process ( Deuteronomy 16:18-20 ). Freedom from bondage is comparable to not being “in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and lack of everything” (Deuteronomy 28:48 NRSV).

Justice presupposes God's intention for people to be in community. When people had become poor and weak with respect to the rest of the community, they were to be strengthened so that they could continue to be effective members of the community—living with them and beside them (Leviticus 25:35-36 ). Thus biblical justice restores people to community. By justice those who lacked the power and resources to participate in significant aspects of the community were to be strengthened so that they could. This concern in Leviticus 25:1 is illustrated by the provision of the year of Jubilee, in which at the end of the fifty year period land is restored to those who had lost it through sale or foreclosure of debts ( Leviticus 25:28 ). Thus they regained economic power and were brought back into the economic community. Similarly, interest on loans was prohibited (Leviticus 25:36 ) as a process which pulled people down, endangering their position in the community.

These legal provisions express a further characteristic of justice. Justice delivers; it does not merely relieve the immediate needs of those in dire straits (Psalm 76:9; Isaiah 45:8; Isaiah 58:11; Isaiah 62:1-2 ). Helping the needy means setting them back on their feet, giving a home, leading to prosperity, restoration, ending the oppression (Psalm 68:5-10; Psalm 10:15-16; compare 107; Psalm 113:7-9 ). Such thorough justice can be socially disruptive. In the Jubilee year as some receive back lands, others lose recently-acquired additional land. The advantage to some is a disadvantage to others. In some cases the two aspects of justice come together. In the act of restoration, those who were victims of justice receive benefits while their exploiters are punished (1 Samuel 2:7-10; compare Luke 1:51-53; Luke 6:20-26 ).

The source of justice As the sovereign Creator of the universe, God is just (Psalm 99:1-4; Genesis 18:25; Deuteronomy 32:4; Jeremiah 9:24 ), particularly as the defender of all the oppressed of the earth (Psalm 76:9; Psalm 103:6; Jeremiah 49:11 ). Justice thus is universal (Psalm 9:7-9 ) and applies to each covenant or dispensation. Jesus affirmed for His day the centrality of the Old Testament demand for justice (Matthew 23:23 ). Justice is the work of the New Testament people of God (James 1:27 ).

God's justice is not a distant external standard. It is the source of all human justice (Proverbs 29:26; 2Chronicles 19:6,2 Chronicles 19:9 ). Justice is grace received and grace shared (2 Corinthians 9:8-10 ).

The most prominent human agent of justice is the ruler. The king receives God's justice and is a channel for it (Psalm 72:1; compare Romans 13:1-2 ,Romans 13:1-2,13:4 ). There is not a distinction between a personal, voluntary justice and a legal, public justice. The same caring for the needy groups of the society is demanded of the ruler (Psalm 72:4; Ezekiel 34:4; Jeremiah 22:15-16 ). Such justice was also required of pagan rulers (Daniel 4:27; Proverbs 31:8-9 ).

Justice is also a central demand on all people who bear the name of God. Its claim is so basic that without it other central demands and provisions of God are not acceptable to God. Justice is required to be present with the sacrificial system (Amos 5:21-24; Micah 6:6-8; Isaiah 1:11-17; Matthew 5:23-24 ), fasting (Isaiah 58:1-10 ), tithing (Matthew 23:23 ), obedience to the other commandments (Matthew 19:16-21 ), or the presence of the Temple of God (Jeremiah 7:1-7 ).

Justice in salvation Apart from describing God's condemnation of sin, Paul used the language and meaning of justice to speak of personal salvation. “The righteousness of God” represents God in grace bringing into the community of God through faith in Christ those who had been outside of the people of God (particularly in Romans but compare also Ephesians 2:12-13 ). See Law; Government; Poverty; Righteousness; Welfare.

Stephen Charles Mott

The social ethic of biblical "justice" fuels the ideals of Distributism.