QUESTION: Did This UPC pastor Steal Money from the church?? you decide

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Old news ... got Ren Rutledge all riled up about this at GNC a few months ago

True, I was trying to remember were I read this before. Rutledge, felt the need to defend this guy, even tho the evidents spoke loud that this pastor did the dirty deed! Sheep thing~


Sounds like the guy guilty to me.

[Theresa]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I don't question the intentions of this brother for a second... let me say that on the outset...

Did the church know about the investment when he entered into it?

if he didnt get the boards approval before he did it, it would APPEAR that it might not have been TOTALLY for the good of the church.

BUT - my question is this - why wasnt the missing funds caught by a bookkeeper or accountant before now? It wasnt like $200 here, $200 there

was someone "covering" up the misappropriated funds?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Theresa

if he didnt get the boards approval before he did it, it would APPEAR that it might not have been TOTALLY for the good of the church.

BUT - my question is this - why wasnt the missing funds caught by a bookkeeper or accountant before now? It wasnt like $200 here, $200 there

was someone "covering" up the misappropriated funds?

Agreed on both accounts.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Theresa

if he didnt get the boards approval before he did it, it would APPEAR that it might not have been TOTALLY for the good of the church.

BUT - my question is this - why wasnt the missing funds caught by a bookkeeper or accountant before now? It wasnt like $200 here, $200 there

was someone "covering" up the misappropriated funds?

So I see you are one of those meddling saints who thinks there should be open books and financial accountibility!!!

Don't you know preachers should have free reign to do whatever they want? Church boards are just there for a stamp of approval. At least that has been my experience.

CC was smart and has a hard mean woman as church admin so she is the bad cop when it comes to budgets, etc and the pastor can concentrate on pastoring.

[ManOfWord]

I knew that this would eventually find its way here, but I was not about to do it myself.

Here is the deal: This is my home church. I was saved there. I spent a number of years there. I was VERY close to the family.

I know quite a bit about this situation and I can tell you that there are many hurting people who feel that they have been betrayed and lost their sacrificial offerings to build a new building.

I will also be very careful with my comments regarding this situation. So, if any of my answers to you folks are somewhat evasive or not detailed enough, please understand.

David Thompson's father is NOT running the church now.

Full disclosure was NEVER brought to the people, which is why the civil suit was filed. There currently is a criminal investigation going on to see if criminal charges will be brought. The detectives stated that it would take multiple months to sort out all of the financial details.

Next Question.....

[CC1]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I knew that this would eventually find its way here, but I was not about to do it myself.

Here is the deal: This is my home church. I was saved there. I spent a number of years there. I was VERY close to the family.

I know quite a bit about this situation and I can tell you that there are many hurting people who feel that they have been betrayed and lost their sacrificial offerings to build a new building.

I will also be very careful with my comments regarding this situation. So, if any of my answers to you folks are somewhat evasive or not detailed enough, please understand.

David Thompson's father is NOT running the church now.

Full disclosure was NEVER brought to the people, which is why the civil suit was filed. There currently is a criminal investigation going on to see if criminal charges will be brought. The detectives stated that it would take multiple months to sort out all of the financial details.

Next Question.....

In white collar crime the wheels of criminal justice turn slowly. I am aware of a local situation where a man was sued by his company for over $300,000 over a kickback scheme he is accused of having setup where he was directly paid money (or a dummy company he and a partner had set up was paid).

That civil lawsuit was filed about 14 months ago and I just heard (not confirmed)a few weeks ago that he will also face multiple criminal charges. That is more than a year after the civil lawsuit was filed.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by CC1

So I see you are one of those meddling saints who thinks there should be open books and financial accountibility!!!

Don't you know preachers should have free reign to do whatever they want? Church boards are just there for a stamp of approval. At least that has been my experience.

CC was smart and has a hard mean woman as church admin so she is the bad cop when it comes to budgets, etc and the pastor can concentrate on pastoring.

I know of some ministers with hands in the cookie jar. I feel, personally, that the Pastor even if he is the founding Pastor once they reach a certain amt of years or number of people that he should not be the CFO or CEO. My former church has someone other than the Pastor as CFO, but the Pastor is basically the CEO.

Of course the Pastor should have a final say in how the money is spent and such, but that should be mainly for outreach purposes. The finances of the church should be ran by the CFO and his board of two or three at least. IMO

My former Pastor has been accused af stealing and taking money year after year, but has never been caught. Mostly because the people that catch it have been told to leave the church and such. I am not sure if he took the money as they have said, but there are some clues that make me think. Even if he didn't it would be hard to prove one way or the other because he controls the money. Infact, a former Associate Pastor left after supposedly finding proof. But when he went to find it again to make a case the evidence was gone.

[CC1]

JTullock,

This is always a difficult situaton. On the one hand I think pastors need accountibility. It protects both them and the church.

Pastors need to realize that they are human and their expertise should be in pastoring, reaching souls, etc not in business. Financial accountibility protects them from good intentions but bad judgement harming the church financially. (ie wild investment schemes).

So financial accountibility protects both the upright just pastor and the church pastored by one who is not so upright and just.

On the other hand I do not think a church board shoult "run" a church and oppose or second guess what the pastor wants to do unless it is clear folly.

I see the board, trustees, admin, or CFO, etc as checks and balances to make sure the pastor has accountibility and a sounding board.

[Theresa]

Originally Posted by CC1

So I see you are one of those meddling saints who thinks there should be open books and financial accountibility!!!
Don't you know preachers should have free reign to do whatever they want? Church boards are just there for a stamp of approval. At least that has been my experience.

CC was smart and has a hard mean woman as church admin so she is the bad cop when it comes to budgets, etc and the pastor can concentrate on pastoring.

no, I'm not actually

But any "pastor" with his head in the right place would have the checks and balances in place to insure accountablilty - no one would have to ask, it would just be that way

[ManOfWord]

If ANY financial accountability had been in place, this probably would not have happened. When multiple family members are in church "offices" it is a recipe for disaster.