How do you almost receive a gift?

[n david]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok, has anyone noted yet that the 'stammering lips' being referred to has nothing whatever to do with speaking in tongues? I mean, please? That is how the Philistines or whomever, Romans, i don't remember, that took over Jerusalem, spoke Aramaic or Hebrew or whatever; with 'stammering lips.' I'm wondering how i had no idea all these years that the 'tongue-tied' had usurped this verse lol.

Yes! I posted that Isaiah 28:11 is not about speaking in tongues or the Holy Ghost. I'm surprised that so many UPC/Pentecostal churches use that verse as a "prophecy" for Acts 2.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sasha

I read something very disturbing from a friend of mine today. She was speaking about her children getting baptized when someone asked if her son received the Holy Ghost. Her reply was, "Not yet, but he almost did."

I've heard people say that many times in my life, but it never struck me like it did when I read that line. How does God almost give us a gift? Where is scripture that says someone "almost" received the Holy Ghost? Where did that come from and why did people start saying it?

It's not that "God almost gave a gift".

God GAVE the gift 2000+ years ago.

Her perception is probably based on tongues being the evidence that someone received that gift. If someone appears to be close to speaking in tongues, it is said "He/She almost received it"

[n david]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It's not that "God almost gave a gift".

God GAVE the gift 2000+ years ago.

Her perception is probably based on tongues being the evidence that someone received that gift. If someone appears to be close to speaking in tongues, it is said "He/She almost received it"

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by n david

Yes! I posted that Isaiah 28:11 is not about speaking in tongues or the Holy Ghost. I'm surprised that so many UPC/Pentecostal churches use that verse as a "prophecy" for Acts 2.

I think the connection is made based on Paul using Isaiah 28:11 as a stepping stone to discuss the issue of speaking in tongues in the Corinthian church.

1 Cor 14
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Paul used Is 28:11 as a text about speaking in tongues, and since the Pentecostal churches "generally" believe tongues is the evidence of receiving the Spirit, thus the case is made that Is 28:11 is a prophecy about speaking in tongues and speaking in tongues was first done in Acts 2. Thus, Is 28:11 was fulfilled in Acts 2.

Also, right after Is 28:11, verse 12 says "This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear."

Given that the "rest" (ref: Heb 4:10, Matt 11:28), in NT terms is salvation (a.k.a receving the Holy Ghost), it is thus inferred that the "rest" prophesied in Is 28:12 is the coming of the Holy Spirit in the new covenant, which was also fulfilled in Acts 2.

So, when Is 28:11- 12 is read, it is understood as the rest (salvation a.k.a Holy Ghost) which God gives with the evidence of speaking in tongues, first fulfilled in Acts 2.

Moreover, in verse 16 of that same Isaiah chapter, we read:
Is 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Paul and Peter in Rom 10:11 and 1 Peter 2:6 respectively also teach that NT salvation is the fulfillment of Is 28:16. Thus, when you tie it all together, you should see why some teach Isaiah 28:11-16 as a prophecy that was fulfilled by way of the new covenant established in Acts 2.

my $0.02

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It's not that "God almost gave a gift".

God GAVE the gift 2000+ years ago.

Her perception is probably based on tongues being the evidence that someone received that gift. If someone appears to be close to speaking in tongues, it is said "He/She almost received it"

But why do we say that? Is there any scripture that states anyone 'almost' received the Holy Ghost? Surely there is an example out of all those people.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sasha

But why do we say that? Is there any scripture that states anyone 'almost' received the Holy Ghost? Surely there is an example out of all those people.

As I said people SAY that because it "appears" to them that someone was close to speaking in tongues...

We might also say "Someone I witnessed too was close to accepting"...based on personal opinion of how that person received the witness..

It's not a biblical observation. It's an experiential observation.

[Praxeas]

How did they know the Samaritans had not received the Spirit yet? Luke does not elaborate but there must have been some reason, some apparent evidence they witnessed or lack thereof

[renee819]

When I had stammering lips, I had no control of what I was saying. It wasn't anything like lalalalal. My lips and my whole jaws trembled, and people said that they could see the Spirit of God in my face. One sister said she heard me speak in tongues, but I wouldn't accept it, because I did not speak plainly. I probably did have the Holy Ghost long before I accepted it.

Let's look at the scriptures concerning stammering lips.

Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

I believe that the Holy Ghost is the 'rest' promised to his people,
God sent the Holy Ghost to the Jews first, but they as a nation would not accept it, would not hear, therefore He blinded their eyes as it says in Rom 11.

Paul reminds the church of these scriptures in 1 Cor. Although he doesn't use word for word, these are the scriptures that he is referring to.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Remember, the 12-13-and 14th chapters are Paul's instructions about the Gifts of the Spirit, and the 14th is mostly about tongues.

And just as the Religious world would not hear the gospel, in that day, so also today much of the Religious world rejects it. And just as God sent blindness to Israel, in this generation He is sending the 'Strong Delusion.' But that is another subject.

[Chateau d'If]

Very good thread.

If tongues are proof one is saved altar workers should be relabeled "proofers."

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

As I said people SAY that because it "appears" to them that someone was close to speaking in tongues...

We might also say "Someone I witnessed too was close to accepting"...based on personal opinion of how that person received the witness..

It's not a biblical observation. It's an experiential observation.

There are Biblical examples of people being 'close to accepting' Christ. There are no Biblical examples of someone 'almost' getting the Holy Ghost.

In the Bible, people believed and they received. Simple. No all night prayer meetings. Nobody shouting 'hold on!' in one ear and 'let go!' in the other. Nobody swaying the prayee back and forth or 'I love you Jesus' very fast until their tongue is tied.

As a child, I was taught (in my UPC church) that the Holy Ghost was a gift, and God doesn't withhold His gifts from us. Then they would excuse the person who would 'almost' get it to say they were 'not letting go' of something, didn't have enough faith, not repentant, and such like. I grew up thinking that God was giving us His gift but more like wagging it over our heads or holding it out for us as we reached for it from an adjacent cliff....just out of reach...unless you were lucky enough to be one of those people who could speak in tongues instantly.

We can repent and be forgiven instantly.

We can be baptized and our sins are washed away instantly.

Speaking in tongues instantly...thus receiving the Holy Ghost...not so much.

I find it sad that we teach our children and newbies these things when the Bible does not.

"Sorry, Johnny and Mary, but you didn't speak in tongues tonight. Try again tomorrow." And Johnny and Mary hope they don't die in the meantime or they will go to hell.