Apostle Junia--Female Apostle - Page 6

Sean · #51 10-22-2014, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Interesting.

Topics that are only mentioned once in the Bible are far less important to me than the topics that are mentioned several times.

I do find profound humor in the fact that some NT practices are mentioned more than once but are ignored by our society. At the same time some topics are mentioned once and are declared of great importance.

Foot washing is ignored. Silent women in church are not.

Telling women they cannot be apostles or teach is sexist and one single sentence in the Bible is used to justify their sexism.

If women must remain silent in the church, why is foot washing optional ??

Oh, Scott...stop it.

And dont you dare play the race card next!...LOL

Esphes45 · #52 10-22-2014, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Interesting.

Topics that are only mentioned once in the Bible are far less important to me than the topics that are mentioned several times.

I do find profound humor in the fact that some NT practices are mentioned more than once but are ignored by our society. At the same time some topics are mentioned once and are declared of great importance.

Foot washing is ignored. Silent women in church are not.

Telling women they cannot be apostles or teach is sexist and one single sentence in the Bible is used to justify their sexism.

If women must remain silent in the church, why is foot washing optional ??

I agree foot washing should be done. How often is one question and is it salvific is another. IMO, Foot washing is not a salvific issue. It is optionaL. I do agree that is should be done. How often is up to you.

Scott Pitta · #53 10-23-2014, 06:21 AM

Fair enough.

When do we start greeting each other with a holy kiss ??

If women must be silent in the church, we also must greet each other with a holy kiss.

Or is that also optional ?

My point is that we emphasis some scriptures and ignore others. Why we do this and which ones are ignored (or emphasized) is very interesting to me.

Ideas that are only mentioned only in the Bible are, due to their isolation, prone to be misinterpreted. Ideas found several places can and should be compared for better understanding.

If women are to be silent in the church, what about colleges ? My Greek professor taught entire generations of pastors and leaders how to read Greek.

Is it a sin for women to teach or hold a chair at a Christian college ?

Sean · #54 10-23-2014, 08:41 AM

Scott, my point is, they must be silent as far as teaching men or usurping authority over men is concerned.

Christian colleges are not in scripture for the N.T. church. It is completely made up for modern times. (though, they may be useful)

The sisters' should be in the mode of reading the commands to them in the epistles and doing what they tell them to do, not trying to "rise to the top" of the authority chain of the congregations or colleges.

Brother, we are talking about the Word of God, not politics or the secular world.

Sean · #55 10-23-2014, 08:53 AM

Greeting each other with a holy kiss would work if you dont think its wrong to have some brother kiss your wife with a holy kiss. I would have a problem with that these days, or maybe kissing a brother that in the past, had "tendencies".

A holy hug is just fine with me, same sex only...LOL

Maybe our generation of gentiles have been too carnal to be truly Godly these days?

Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

Aquila · #56 10-23-2014, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Thirteen women surveyed (Lydia, Chloe, Nympha, Apphia, Mary, Persis, Tryphena, Tryphosa, Priscilla, Euodia, Syntyche, Phoebe, and Junia) provide clear evidence from Paul that women did participate in the gospel ministry, as did men. Paul’s common terminology often made no distinctions in roles or functions between men and women in ministry.

That has been my finding as well.

Aquila · #57 10-23-2014, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

When we remove the tradition of so called authority of those that ministered in the early church, it is very possible for women to minister in the church without usurping authority over the man.

Even in this day and age, I have personally known two wonderful women preachers that ministered without usurping authority over men. The only way there is a problem with women in ministry, is when we give unbiblical authority to the ministry over the saints.

If a woman is under the authority of a male elder... or the men of the church willingly desire to hear her teaching and what she has to offer... she's in perfect order. However, if male elders and males of the church view her as a loud mouthed busy body and have no interest in what she has to say and she strive to say it in the gathering... she's out of order.

But then again... so would a man if he would overstep these very same boundaries.

Aquila · #58 10-23-2014, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I nothing else, this post has caused me to go back and restudy this subject. Glad I did, because you make some off the wall statements that these passages do not address.

When are we going to get that the ministry are not nor ever have been intended to be positions of authority. They are positions of servitude, when has a servant ever at the same time had authority? Jesus own words tell us that we are not to exercise authority over one another.

We must stop reading these passages, in light of our own day and age, and at face value, and do as Paul instructed Timothy, and that is to study to show ourselves approved.

First off we must couple this passage with the other teachings of Paul to other churches. And the present custom of that period of time, when women were not allowed to partake of the discussions of men concerning scripture in the synagogues, and this was carried into the early churches. The key word here is found in 1 Cor. 14 where Paul states women were to keep silence in the church (assembly), where they would come to discus and debate scripture. Paul speaks of order in the assembly that God is not a God of confusion. Hence the women not taking part in the debates.
This by no means meant that women could not teach outside the general assembly or gatherings. Nor a women speaking a word of prophecy in the assembly.

The above being said, Paul is speaking in 1 Cor. 11 about women prophesying in the church, and that this was allowable as long as she was in proper submission with her head, (husband).

Our biggest problem in my opinion, is that we have an improper view of the authority of the ministry within the church. One I might add has been inherited from our Roman Catholic brethren. That of giving unscriptural authority to men over the saints of God.

Aquila · #59 10-23-2014, 10:29 AM

How much of this is cultural and able to be governed by leadership through spiritual authority?

Matthew 18:18
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Some might agree that Paul bound women to be silent as it relates to teaching and to wearing head coverings in gatherings. However, they might also agree that the elders guiding the church has authority to lift such cultural requirements if they see fit.

Scott Pitta · #60 10-23-2014, 11:43 AM

If it is OK to ignore the holy kiss greeting, it is OK to ignore the silent women idea.

But if we have to do everything they did back then, keep the women silent. Greeters must kiss members and after church, wash their feet.

If one custom is obligatory, they all are. If one is not obligatory, then none are. If you do not practice foot washing or kiss at greeting time, yet order women to be silent and submissive, then you are a sexist and need to repent.