Irreconcilable Differences

["GL"]

Breaking the Covenant Relationship of Marriage
Marriage, Separation, Divorce

Matt 19:3-9
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" 4 And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' 5 and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate." 7 They said to Him,"Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce , and to put her away?" 8 He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery." (NKJV)

Mark 10:9-12
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate." 10 In the house His disciples also asked Him again about the same matter. 11 So He said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery." (NKJV)

1 Cor 7:10-11
Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife. (NKJV)

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I used to mock people who made that kind of claim to end a marriage.

Irreconcilable differences.

I used to think that there was no difference so great that a resolution could not be reached. I used to think that the "irreconcilable differences" claim was just an excuse to get out of a marriage, and swap up. But the older I get, the more I realize there really are some differences that cannot be resolved.

Understand that I am not excusing divorce. I still believe that a person has a moral obligation to stand by the vows they made to their spouse, and to God. But I can see how two people can diverge after a while. How life can effect major personality changes. So much so, that a person becomes unrecognizable after a while. This is why quality time in marriage must have its place. It minimizes the differences as people grow together.

I have several questions about "irreconcilable differences".

How should we handle the irreconcilable differences that arise in our lives outside of marriage?
How long do you stay with an employer you are consistently at odds with?
How long do you stay in an organization you disagree with?
How long do you stay in a church that is headed in a different direction than you want to go?

What level of disagreement is tolerable and acceptable? At what point do you cut bait and run?

A REMINDER of the vows "for better for worse-for richer for poorer-in sickness and in health-forsaking ALL other -cleaving unto each AS LONG AS YE BOTH SHALL LIVE. Just a thought maybe we should remove any commitments since they mean nothing today.

[revrandy]

What I have found interesting in Relationships (Somewhat hitch-hiking on Rhoni's comment) is that maturity can work against and for relationships in different ways...

For example...

Immature Couple can be on the rocks because they don't have the maturity to deal with problems that come their way or selfish desires that force them a part..... on the other hand a couple that works together and matures together will grow together and make it..

A Mature Man or Woman have problems at times finding a relationship or building one for the same reasons listed above all though in a different pattern.. many times a single or divorcee have had things too long their way to commit or compromise to change and it creates a rocky road too many don't want to travel... on the other hand once they reach a maturity in age many realize that not too many oppurtunity's present themself to build a relationship and those that recognize this often will change and compromise to make things work as long as BOTH parties are willing...

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I believe if a person is walking in intimate relationship with the Lord, aka walking in the spirit and not the flesh, they will know when and if the relationship has any hope of restoration or maturing. Some are looking for reasons because they are immature and lacking character. God can change any situation, but it will require tough love in many cases, and sometimes folks are determined to walk in destruction. Some lack the fortitude to confront dysfunction.

excellent post.. I agree.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Can a person change so drastically that you would choose to break fellowship with them? If your job changed it's expectations of you, how long would it take for you to quit? If your church slipped into liberality, how long before you leave?

Jobs I have little tolerance... too many out there and not worth stress. Stress will kill you.

Churches. I could stick with a church going more liberal as long as I didn't feel they were not compromising on truth. I guess that would be different from person to person. Currently I attend a church that is more conservative in belief than I am. I tolerate some things.. as I am sure they tolerate my more liberal outlook.

marriage is a committment before God.. I have conservative view on that.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by ForeverBlessed

Jobs I have little tolerance... too many out there and not worth stress. Stress will kill you.

Churches. I could stick with a church going more liberal as long as I didn't feel they were not compromising on truth. I guess that would be different from person to person. Currently I attend a church that is more conservative in belief than I am. I tolerate some things.. as I am sure they tolerate my more liberal outlook.

marriage is a committment before God.. I have conservative view on that.

Folks you have just witnessed the miraculous!!!!!

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

A REMINDER of the vows "for better for worse-for richer for poorer-in sickness and in health-forsaking ALL other -cleaving unto each AS LONG AS YE BOTH SHALL LIVE. Just a thought maybe we should remove any commitments since they mean nothing today.

Who said anything about abandoning marriage commitments? Did you even read the post Steve?

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by ForeverBlessed

Jobs I have little tolerance... too many out there and not worth stress. Stress will kill you.

Churches. I could stick with a church going more liberal as long as I didn't feel they were not compromising on truth. I guess that would be different from person to person. Currently I attend a church that is more conservative in belief than I am. I tolerate some things.. as I am sure they tolerate my more liberal outlook.

marriage is a committment before God.. I have conservative view on that.

I have come to the conclusion that no job, including ministry positions, are worth excessive stress.

["GL"]

Marriage - covenant relationship between God, husband, wife. Since God is involved and has spoken His will in the matter, we'd do well to follow His Word and not be inclined to make exception after exception.

Ministry Organization - I consider my fellowship and membership with the UPC to be a covenant of brotherhood. I have prayerfully signed what I consider to be "agreements" and the statements of affirmation over the course of my several years of licensure. I have determined that it is the best overall organization for me. I pretty much turn my head from the politics and focus on fellowship and the specific work to which God has called us. I have determined that there is a great value to fellowship and accountability and a great danger in independence and isolation. Although I become disheartened from time to time, I will remain with the UPC as long as God allows for me to do so. I have no right to complain if I do not work to affect change. So I work to foster fellowship, brotherhood, unity, etc. I will only leave in the event of one of the following: (1) if after much prayer, God specifically instructs me to leave, (2) if I can not in good faith sign something I am asked to sign, (3) if I determine that the organization ceases to preach the Truth as I understand it and God has revealed to me through His Word, (4) if I feel that the association with the UPC threatens to undermine the work of God in our specific field of labor. If I ever consider leaving, I will immediately look for another covenant of brotherhood.

Local Church - Usually a non-covenant relationship. I have always resisted follow my emotions in reference to leaving a particular church. I have resisted "following my heart or my gut," because the heart is deceitful. So are our emotions. We are to be Spirit-led. In short, I refuse to leave a church until the same voice that led me there leads me elsewhere. Don't run from a church, run to a church or calling. When people get into the habit of running, it's a difficult cycle to break.

Job - sometimes a covenant relationship with conditions to the breaking of the covenant. If this is the case, although the employment is at will, we are obligated to follow any non-compete or trade secret clauses which may have been part of the employment agreement (covenant). If an agreement is signed, it may be in your best interest to stick it out the rough times (unless you are being forced to compromise your integrity). If there is no employment agreement, pray prior to considering leaving. Follow peace.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I have come to the conclusion that no job, including ministry positions, are worth excessive stress.

In marriage commitment is everything. Agape love is commitment. Like the vows say for better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health....

In jobs and ministry you have to assess the situation as to weather or not it fits into your priorities and examine to see if your priorities are correct.

What would you say is your order of priorities?