At Paul's conversion, the language teaches that it was Paul calling upon the name of the Lord, not the baptizor.
No, I'm not familiar with the Acts of Paul and Thecla.
You may infer from Paul that it was he who called upon Christ and I am sure he did just as I am sure the baptizer invoked Christ's name when he was baptized. Acts 2:38, Acts 8, Acts 10, Acts 19, 1Cor. 1:13
Note: I purposely left out Acts 22 because I don't have the time to dispute this currently.
FYI The Acts of Paul and Thecla is about a woman who converted but was caught up in a persecution before baptism. She ends up baptizing herself in Jesus name by calling out I baptize myself in Jesus name and then plunges into a body of water. it is a fictional story but is instructive in that it shows in the literature of the time the accepted formula for baptism - Jesus name.
Invoking the name is and was how baptism was/is accomplished.
Then as I have said multiple times now the diagnosis does not fit the Oneness because there is only ONE person.
Trinitarian's believe in three persons but one being. It is simply polytheism masquerading as monotheism.
I didn't ask about a diagnosis in that post, and I said I wasn't asking about the Trinitarian God. I was asking about what you would say is the real God. The Oneness God.
Can you answer the questions?
1) Does God, as the "Father", have a distinct way of talking?
2) Does God, as the Son, have a distinct way of talking?
3) Does God, as the Holy Ghost, have a distinct way of talking?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Then as I have said multiple times now the diagnosis does not fit the Oneness because there is only ONE person.
Trinitarian's believe in three persons but one being. It is simply polytheism masquerading as monotheism.
In oneness theology, there is one person who believes Himself to be His own son and who wrestles with two wills within Himself, doing something he doesn't want to do but does what he wants to do. This one person has a Father and God who is Himself, who was the firstbegotten of all creation.
In oneness theology, there is one person who believes Himself to be His own son and who wrestles with two wills within Himself, doing something he doesn't want to do but does what he wants to do. This one person has a Father and God who is Himself, who was the firstbegotten of all creation.
Now, doesn't that make sense?
This is a misunderstanding of Oneness theology. It is evident that Jesus is unique - the incarnation. It is also evident of a misunderstanding of the omnipresent God and what is required for Calvary to be efficacious.
I mentioned it somewhere on this board that for Calvary to be efficacious a man of Adam's race had to pay the penalty. Not just any man could do it. Only a sinless man could pay the price (Rom. 5, 1Cor. 15, Rom 3:23 etc.). Jesus is the seed of Abraham (Heb. 2:16).
Jesus is unique in that He is God manifest in flesh as such He has two natures. One completely human - Calvary requires this. The second His divine nature. He emptied Himself of His divine prerogatives and lived life as a man (Phil. 2). I am putting together a book on this but it is a ways off as yet.
Because He is unique there is nothing in this world to compare to Him in His incarnation. On the other hand we are all created in the image of God and this is where Trinitarian logic fails. One of many places. They say there is nothing in this world that compares to God yet the fact is there are millions of examples for we are all created in His image. When someone has MPD/DID we know they are sick and this is symptomatic of Trinitarian doctrine being sick.
So again you are wrong. It is one person setting aside divine prerogatives to live life as a man and while here He did just that. Still because He is omnipresent He was still in heaven as the God of the universe. God can manifest Himself in multiple ways simultaneously throughout the universe and still be ONE PERSON, not three.
I didn't ask about a diagnosis in that post, and I said I wasn't asking about the Trinitarian God. I was asking about what you would say is the real God. The Oneness God.
Can you answer the questions?
1) Does God, as the "Father", have a distinct way of talking?
2) Does God, as the Son, have a distinct way of talking?
3) Does God, as the Holy Ghost, have a distinct way of talking?
You don't seem to get it do you? God is ONE PERSON manifesting Himself in multiple ways not THREE PEOPLE. The basis for an MPD/DID diagnosis is for ONE PERSON to be TWO or more distinct people.
This is a misunderstanding of Oneness theology. It is evident that Jesus is unique - the incarnation. It is also evident of a misunderstanding of the omnipresent God and what is required for Calvary to be efficacious.
I mentioned it somewhere on this board that for Calvary to be efficacious a man of Adam's race had to pay the penalty. Not just any man could do it. Only a sinless man could pay the price (Rom. 5, 1Cor. 15, Rom 3:23 etc.). Jesus is the seed of Abraham (Heb. 2:16).
Jesus is unique in that He is God manifest in flesh as such He has two natures. One completely human - Calvary requires this. The second His divine nature. He emptied Himself of His divine prerogatives and lived life as a man (Phil. 2). I am putting together a book on this but it is a ways off as yet.
Because He is unique there is nothing in this world to compare to Him in His incarnation. On the other hand we are all created in the image of God and this is where Trinitarian logic fails. One of many places. They say there is nothing in this world that compares to God yet the fact is there are millions of examples for we are all created in His image. When someone has MPD/DID we know they are sick and this is symptomatic of Trinitarian doctrine being sick.
So again you are wrong. It is one person setting aside divine prerogatives to live life as a man and while here He did just that. Still because He is omnipresent He was still in heaven as the God of the universe. God can manifest Himself in multiple ways simultaneously throughout the universe and still be ONE PERSON, not three.
I disagree. There are interactions between God and His Son which indicate two separate and distinct persons. God the Father speaks of His Son, and His Son speaks of His Father and God, who incidentally is the same God and Father which Mary has.
The Father wasn't His own Son who then interacted with Himself as having a separate will, "not my will but yours be done", in some sort of multiple personality relationship with Himself, struggling within Himself and finally yielding to one of the two wills within Himself.
Humanity vs. deity doesn't explain how Jesus spoke of His Father as sending Him, doesn't explain how the resurrected Christ ascended to His Father and God and doesn't explain His anointing by His Father, His identification as the Lamb of God and His identification as perfect high priest.
I disagree. There are interactions between God and His Son which indicate two separate and distinct persons. God the Father speaks of His Son, and His Son speaks of His Father and God, who incidentally is the same God and Father which Mary has.
The Father wasn't His own Son who then interacted with Himself as having a separate will, "not my will but yours be done", in some sort of multiple personality relationship with Himself, struggling within Himself and finally yielding to one of the two wills within Himself.
Humanity vs. deity doesn't explain how Jesus spoke of His Father as sending Him, doesn't explain how the resurrected Christ ascended to His Father and God and doesn't explain His anointing by His Father, His identification as the Lamb of God and His identification as perfect high priest.
Actually it does you just choose to ignore it and hold to a duality. A polytheistic duality or worse a subordinate deity which is again polytheism or a type of Arianism.
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]We should never seek to destroy rather we should seek to edify.
Please consider what I have posted without the defense mechanisms rising up. I am not saying you are bitter. I am saying some things sound or appear bitter. That is all. I don't know you nor can I tell if you are or not. I can say why relive past hurts? Seek to edify rather than bring others down around you by living in the past. [/COLOR]
As I read your answers, which were all mixed in with you quoting me and hard to distinguish between yours and mine, I had this long elaborate answer of which nobody likes to read. So, to shorten it, let me assure you that I have read everything you posted. Just because I do not address every jot and tittle of your postings does not mean I haven't read it. I find you splitting hairs about the perceived "bitter" part.
I also find that you do not want me to make "blanket statements" about the ministry, yet the ministry can make blanket judgments about a large group of people's salvation? That is really painting with a broad brush. It's also something you have no idea of whether or not they are saved or lost. That is Christ's place to judge their salvation, not any man, preacher or not.
And while you want me to consider your posts about defense mechanisms rising up, I hope you likewise consider your own postings on that subject. Otherwise, why would you lump yourself in with what you perceive as a blanket statement?
Let me put it this way. I have not had the pleasure of sitting under a fabulous pastor. My only experience with OP ministers is what I have to go by and I've found that the ones I've sat under live under a controlling double standard. They have said one thing to the people and went against what they told us we had to do. They were hard on the women when it came to standards, yet gave their own daughters a pass when they left the standards.
All I am saying is that many trinitarian people are looking to Jesus and not godhead doctrine. Many of them are sincere in their walk with God. Let them learn as they grow in the Spirit without condemning them to hell.
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It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
It's also something you have no idea of whether or not they are saved or lost. That is Christ's place to judge their salvation, not any man, preacher or not.
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