The [Apostolic] Prosperity Gospel

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by houston

For some pastors the tithe is their only source of income. One of my former pastors asked the church if they wanted a FT or a PT pastor. If the congregation wanted a FT they would have to be faithful to give tithes. If the congregation wanted a PT, he would obtain secular employment. The church voted for a FT pastor.

AND he is FT! Door is always open, on call, etc.

....a hireling! And Jesus tells us what the hireling does.

But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

(John 10:12)

The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

(John 10:13)

Seen it happen many times.

[NorCal]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

....a hireling! And Jesus tells us what the hireling does.

But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

(John 10:12)

The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

(John 10:13)

Seen it happen many times.

That's because the Shepard usually has more stake in the protection of the sheep. (They are usually his own.)

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

So do I leave to start a church or even home church? I can't say so b/c I am not sure that is what I am called to do. God has given me gifts, but I am not sure that is one of them.

Start by seeing who would be interested in sharing Bible studies on a night when your church is not having meetings. If it is God's will, your studies will grow and prosper with people. It may take some time, but God will direct you. Remember, in home meetings, everybody gets a chance to share what is in their heart and not just one doing all the teachings. Everybody gets to bring something to the table...a spiritual smorgasbord?

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by NorCal

As for Tithing, I have never known for a Pastor to keep the tithes and the church work off the offerings. My Pastor growing up worked a full time construction job and many times never took a salary, paid his tithes to the church, etc.

As a matter of fact, most of the pastors I know do that, either in construction, real-estate, or some other profession where they can take the time off for Conventions, Conferences or other things. If they became wealthy do that, God bless them, but these are mostly UPC/WPF pastors up and down California.

If you are referring to the mega-churches that are denominal, then I can not speak for those.

Tithing evolved from Deuteronomy to the New Testament because the economy evolved. When Israel entered the Promised Land, everyone was given sections of the land as theirs to own, but the Levites were not (as you so mentioned). However, after generations, Captivity, etc, they went from a Farm Based Society, to a Trade Based Society. How can you pay tithes to the Levites (priesthood) if you had no land? You gave 10% of your increase. This is displayed by the woman that gave the two mites. Jesus Praised her for that, because that is all she had. She gave out of her living, not out of her abundance.

Did she own land? Probably not. Was she very poor? Obviously. Did she give? Absolutely.

"Blessed is the Cheerful Giver"

There is no scriptural instruction about going from a farm based economy to trade based society. None whatsoever. If tithing "evolved" then it is man that evolved it and did not come from God.

Sounds like II Peter 2:3 to me.

As for the woman giving the two mites....this is not a "tithe". This was money offering which went into the Temple tax. She lived before Christ died on the Cross. She was living under the law.

None of us are against being a cheerful giver...make no mistake about that.
We are against being a "Tithe payer" The difference is in that you "pay" something because you owe it. You give because you have a cheerful desire to do so...to help others freely.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by NorCal

That's because the Shepard usually has more stake in the protection of the sheep. (They are usually his own.)

The Pastor is not my shepherd...Jesus is and he is not paid with money to do so.
Christ paid with his life and for that I owe Him my allegiance.

[NorCal]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

The Pastor is not my shepherd...Jesus is and he is not paid with money to do so.
Christ paid with his life and for that I owe Him my allegiance.

Oh yeah, the Pastor is the Watchman that watches for your soul! I Guess the pastor is the paid one!

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by houston

why don't you start a place?

We are doing just that. By inviting friends in for what used to be our 'family' devotions. Still I love the idea of a group that is seasoned in this type of worship. I work and run a farm, I'm good at those things...

[Nitehawk013]

NorCal...you are saynig the very same things I not only heard for years, but even said myself. The problem is that they are unfounded! Ask yourself these questions.

What verse says tithes evolved from the OT Levitical tithe to support for the modern Pastor?

If it did, why didn't Paul ever say a word about it? Or Peter? Or James, the supposed Pastor at Jerusalem?

Why do we say EVERYONE tithed to the Levites? Leviticus doesn't describe this. Neither do Numbers or any other book that details who tithed. Only certain members of society with specific professions tithed.

Where is the role of Pastor EVER called the Watchman? Or the "under shepard"? Heck...where is the role of Pastor ever described period? What we call a Pastor has no scriptural example!

Ask these questions for yourself and then look for the answer in the book.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Start by seeing who would be interested in sharing Bible studies on a night when your church is not having meetings. If it is God's will, your studies will grow and prosper with people. It may take some time, but God will direct you. Remember, in home meetings, everybody gets a chance to share what is in their heart and not just one doing all the teachings. Everybody gets to bring something to the table...a spiritual smorgasbord?

Very true... I know house church elders who facilitate the meeting and allow the members to essentially take it from there. If gross error is taught, he will interrupt, but in some meetings the body spends most of the time ministering to themselves. He just smiles and listens, being ministered to.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by NorCal

Oh yeah, the Pastor is the Watchman that watches for your soul! I Guess the pastor is the paid one!

Pastors watch for the souls of the saints in the sense of giving them proper instruction, counsel, and direction. Ultimately the saint stands before God alone.