If Salvation is a absolute free gift..

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Socialite

No, OF2, that's called moralism.

He came to make dead people live. That was the ultimate goal. The problem with sin wasn't that we smoked cigarettes and watched dirty movies. The problem with sin is that we brought death onto ourselves, and so, we're living like dead people. He came to bring LIFE -- and LIFE more abundantly. He came to rescue us from death.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


Is that verse in your Bible? Thats what I quoted.

If he brings us to life, then we walk in that life. Thats what the first two chapters of 1 john are all about, walking in the light. These are actions that we have to consciously decide to do with the help of the Spirit.

John 3:16-21


16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


The reason we come to the light, is that our deeds may be manifest that they are worked in God. Lovers of darkness won't come to the light because it changes their deeds. Thats what Jesus said in John 3!

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Doesn't this mean one can lose salvation?

Rom 11:21

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
KJV

Interestingly, in the context of God's faithful covenant to Israel.

No, God has not rejected his own people, whom he chose from the very beginning

It is the same today, for a few of the people of Israel[c] have remained faithful because of God’s grace—his undeserved kindness in choosing them. 6 And since it is through God’s kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God’s grace would not be what it really is—free and undeserved.

So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have—the ones God has chosen—but the hearts of the rest were hardened. 8 As the Scriptures say,

Did God’s people stumble and fall beyond recovery? Of course not! They were disobedient, so God made salvation available to the Gentiles. But he wanted his own people to become jealous and claim it for themselves. 12 Now if the Gentiles were enriched because the people of Israel turned down God’s offer of salvation, think how much greater a blessing the world will share when they finally accept it.

And since Abraham and the other patriarchs were holy, their descendants will also be holy—just as the entire batch of dough is holy because the portion given as an offering is holy. For if the roots of the tree are holy, the branches will be, too.

But some of these branches from Abraham’s tree—some of the people of Israel—have been broken off. And you Gentiles, who were branches from a wild olive tree, have been grafted in. So now you also receive the blessing God has promised Abraham and his children, sharing in the rich nourishment from the root of God’s special olive tree. 18 But you must not brag about being grafted in to replace the branches that were broken off. You are just a branch, not the root.

19 “Well,” you may say, “those branches were broken off to make room for me.” 20 Yes, but remember—those branches were broken off because they didn’t believe in Christ, and you are there because you do believe. So don’t think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen. 21 For if God did not spare the original branches, he won’t[f] spare you either.

22 Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off. 23 And if the people of Israel turn from their unbelief, they will be grafted in again, for God has the power to graft them back into the tree. 24 You, by nature, were a branch cut from a wild olive tree. So if God was willing to do something contrary to nature by grafting you into his cultivated tree, he will be far more eager to graft the original branches back into the tree where they belong.

Many of the people of Israel are now enemies of the Good News, and this benefits you Gentiles. Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 29 For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn. 30 Once, you Gentiles were rebels against God, but when the people of Israel rebelled against him, God was merciful to you instead. 31 Now they are the rebels, and God’s mercy has come to you so that they, too, will share[k] in God’s mercy. 32 For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.

33 Oh, how great are God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his ways!

34 For who can know the Lord’s thoughts?
Who knows enough to give him advice?[l]
35 And who has given him so much
that he needs to pay it back?[m]

36 For everything comes from him and exists by his power and is intended for his glory. All glory to him forever! Amen.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


Is that verse in your Bible? Thats what I quoted.

If he brings us to life, then we walk in that life. Thats what the first two chapters of 1 john are all about, walking in the light. These are actions that we have to consciously decide to do with the help of the Spirit.

John 3:16-21


16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


The reason we come to the light, is that our deeds may be manifest that they are worked in God. Lovers of darkness won't come to the light because it changes their deeds. Thats what Jesus said in John 3!

You continue to make the mistake of suggesting I don't believe in good works.

The ultimate purpose of Christ's rescue was not so you can feed a poor person, it was so you, who were dead in your sin, would be made alive. Then, we exhorted to live as people who are ALIVE. Really alive. Not to live like "walking dead."

His rescue spared us from eternal death. When we view sin in the dead/alive terms, instead of the typical Evangelical bad/good perspective, we are able to escape the danger of moralism, and instead, fully embrace the Gospel.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Socialite

You continue to make the mistake of suggesting I don't believe in good works.

The ultimate purpose of Christ's rescue was not so you can feed a poor person, it was so you, who were dead in your sin, would be made alive. Then, we exhorted to live as people who are ALIVE. Really alive. Not to live like "walking dead."

His rescue spared us from eternal death. When we view sin in the dead/alive terms, instead of the typical Evangelical bad/good perspective, we are able to escape the danger of moralism, and instead, fully embrace the Gospel.

No I was responding to your claim I was teaching moralism. I was teaching what I read in the scripture.

Walking after the Spirit is not just feeing a "poor person" Its the spirit of willing to follow Christ and deny your flesh.

Secondly the Bible categorizes those who do evil as those in darkness and those that do good as those of the Light.

You can't deny this. I'm not teaching works salvation and you can't lay that on me. I'm teaching you must consciously allow the work of the Spirit to continue in you. That is how you walk after the Spirit. That will manifest in actions, yes. But not just actions. Your whole mentality will be different.

Our free will is not destroyed by salvation and our flesh nature, while conquered in baptism, is still around for us to dig up.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

No I was responding to your claim I was teaching moralism. I was teaching what I read in the scripture.

Walking after the Spirit is not just feeing a "poor person" Its the spirit of willing to follow Christ and deny your flesh.

Secondly the Bible categorizes those who do evil as those in darkness and those that do good as those of the Light.

You can't deny this. I'm not teaching works salvation and you can't lay that on me. I'm teaching you must consciously allow the work of the Spirit to continue in you. That is how you walk after the Spirit. That will manifest in actions, yes. But not just actions. Your whole mentality will be different.

Our free will is not destroyed by salvation and our flesh nature, while conquered in baptism, is still around for us to dig up.

I didn't actually say YOU are teaching moralism, I'm pointing to the danger of moralism when see the Gospel as being primarily about making bad people good, over dead people living. We aren't shooting the trajectory of redemption deep enough.

The idea of being "born again" has much to do with new life. Jesus asked us to believe, not to do good works to be saved. Our believing is our sign of life. It's our life source, in fact.

"I come that you might have life."

The evil deeds are symptoms of death, not death themselves

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I didn't actually say YOU are teaching moralism, I'm pointing to the danger of moralism when see the Gospel as being primarily about making bad people good, over dead people living. We aren't shooting the trajectory of redemption deep enough.

The idea of being "born again" has much to do with new life. Jesus asked us to believe, not to do good works to be saved. Our believing is our sign of life. It's our life source, in fact.

"I come that you might have life."

The evil deeds are symptoms of death, not death themselves

You didn't address walking after the Spirit??

Being born again has to do with change. That is why Jesus said those come to the light have their works wrought in God

Thats why Paul said when we are baptized into Christ's death so the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

That is why Paul said in Romans 8 that the Spirit would quicken our mortal bodies. and that we are not debtors to the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

You didn't address walking after the Spirit??

Being born again has to do with change. That is why Jesus said those come to the light have their works wrought in God

Thats why Paul said when we are baptized into Christ's death so the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

That is why Paul said in Romans 8 that the Spirit would quicken our mortal bodies. and that we are not debtors to the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.

I don't disagree with any of the above

Regarding addressing the language of "walking after the Spirit," I did attempt to address that in a prior post. I'm curious what you think that means exactly. I've read a few exegetical commentaries on Corinthians where they've broken that down and curious what you interpret it to mean, and how that shapes the particular discussion.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I don't disagree with any of the above

Regarding addressing the language of "walking after the Spirit," I did attempt to address that in a prior post. I'm curious what you think that means exactly. I've read a few exegetical commentaries on Corinthians where they've broken that down and curious what you interpret it to mean, and how that shapes the particular discussion.

I did somewhat try to explain what I feel it is. To me its a choice to follow the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. To me it hinges on choice. You have the Spirit leading you one way and the flesh pulling you another, you choice which to follow. As long as we choose to allow the Spirit to work that perfect work in us, we can be confident that we will not be lead astray.

With me it starts from the time I arise and doesn't end till the time I lay down at night.

One day at a time.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I did somewhat try to explain what I feel it is. To me its a choice to follow the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. To me it hinges on choice. You have the Spirit leading you one way and the flesh pulling you another, you choice which to follow. As long as we choose to allow the Spirit to work that perfect work in us, we can be confident that we will not be lead astray.

With me it starts from the time I arise and doesn't end till the time I lay down at night.

One day at a time.

What you call choice, I call belief.

Just like I didn't choose to be saved, I believed to be saved.

I don't choose to have good fruit, I believe God's gift on the cross and BEAR good fruit.

[mfblume]

Socialite, Luke2447 and onefaith2, much of all you each have said is the same thing only coming from different perspectives and terms which caused you to think the other said something else, except socialite's inclination to OSAS.