Has AFF been FEMINIZED?

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Amazes me that one or two believe as Charnock feels and he lumps us all in that same bucket.

Exactly.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Barb

You, sir, have a REAL problem with making false allegations. You cannot prove a thing you just posted.

It is not that those who have a "problem" with some posters can't defend their beliefs, or that what we believe cannot stand scrutiny. It is the manner in which it is presented.

I have been posting on forums since just after Bro. Yohe passed, and let me tell you what I found...

After lurking for some time and finally posting, I found that there were 2 kinds of Apostolic Pentecostals...I never knew that before FCF, and I am 3rd gen Oneness.

I knew the UPCI was founded on a merger, but the particulars were never presented to me. I thought EVERYONE who claimed to be Apostolic believed as I was taught.

I also found those who left the Mothership, but STILL believed on One God, baptized folks in Jesus Name, and saw them Spirit filled.

How could this be?

I was told all who left were backslidden, but other than dress and hair, I could not see a difference.

Some of those folk back then were Sherri, Tam, Renda, Pianoman, CC1, Timlan, and others...names escape me.

I found that though we may disagree on some points of view, they are grateful for their heritage.

The UPCI may not have been the greatest train in town, but in all it's imperfections, it was a beginning...the place of our spiritual birth, and in this we all shared a common ground.

With this in common, back in the day issues could be discussed, pointedly at times, but at the end of the day there was respect.

There was respect for the individual on the other side of the monitor and respect for the heritage we all shared.

Sadly, it is not so with the new breed today.

Back then Coonskinner could go head to head with CC1, but there was no attacking going on.

It was called discussion.

If someone left, regardless of what side of the road they lived, they were missed by all.

No so today.

And while I'm on this soapbox, for what it is worth, I don't think we can lay all the blame on ownership or admins.

They cannot be everywhere and can't read every post. And I understand that controversy, such as when Dan is at his 'best', or when Thad/St. Mark was here with his tabloid journalism, breeds readers.

I do not fault them. I fault the mindset that is not limited to one poster, but is prevalent in our Apostolic people today...

The idea that MY view is the only view.

If you do not agree with me, you do not believe in grace.

If you decide that being here where I am spouting my rhetoric is not for you, you cannot stand the 'truth'.

The past is the past and has no place in the church world today...that is 'old school' and we are enlightened.

Give me Sherri and Renda any day of the week...we may not always agree on every thing, but there is genuine respect for each other, and we have never met face to face.

And you know, that's the wonderful thing about the Church...there can be love and respect without total agreement.

Sounds like how the UPCI was founded, doesn't it?

I think most everyone here can agree with the bolded part. I wasn't around for the other stuff so I have no opinion.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Brutal thread.

AFF is not what it was. It used to be a place where people with diverse ideologies clashed.

No more.

AFF has one ideology. That ideology includes a venomous hatred for all things Oneness Pentecostal. Wrong.

AFF is a church. A religious movement. A political action committee whose entire purpose is to tear down basic doctrinal truths like the Oneness of God, Holy Spirit baptism and the need for righteous living. Wrong.

Hate your pastor? AFF is for you.
Wrong.

Hate being told no? AFF is for you?
Wrong.

Hate absolutes? AFF is for you?
Wrong.

Deny God exists? AFF is for you.
HUGELY Wrong.

Mock tongue talkers? AFF is for you.
Wrong. Tongue talkers? Really? Sounds like you are mocking it yourself.

It IS revolting, and entirely sad. It wasn't always this way. The depth of blasphemy represented is staggering.
Wrong.

Has AFF changed? Yes. In three years, I bet most of your churches/families/yourself has changed too.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

..."Any truth that cannot be tested by criticism (constructive or destructive) is no truth at all."

AMEN.

This is somewhat in contradistinction to "believe it because I said so, bless God!"

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by DAII

The modicum of civility patterned after statesmen and diplomats of peace/tolerance like Benincasa, Epley, Coonskinner, WWOD, Steadfast, et al.

I think with these two names DA debunked the whole "its his posting style that bothers us so much" argument.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that those who've been around longer than I (and there are not too many of those left anymore!) would tell you that the original premiss of our first forum which we descended from was just that - tolerance and free speech with civil debate. I don't think that just because we believe in tolerance and free speech it means that we don't care about Truth and souls. Sometimes those are yell the loudest about truth and their love for souls are really, in the end, only yelling because they want to be considered "right". They are not even willing to consider that sometimes others make good points as well.

AMEN!!

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by Cindy

It's always sad when those claim that they are defending truth, are in reality defending, I am right. With no respect to any other. Liberal, moderate, or conservative, it doesn't matter which side you are on. Opinions are not the truth. And truth needs no defense. And on a forum like AFF, God get's dragged into the battle. As we are not defending HIS truth, but our own opinions, He is left on the way side. Personal attacks become common and of course there are always casualties. Some leave in a huff, some in hurt, and some in anger. But it doesn't seem to matter, there are others that will come along and start the battle over again.

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:35.

Well said, Cindy. And Barb, I didn't repost your whole post, but wanted to tell you as well that I agree. You made some very, very good points.

The thing is, why can we not discuss and disagree while not being disagreeable? Discussion is good. We need to talk over what we believe. Doing so helps us to better what understand what exactly we believe and why. But we can do that without tearing one another down. Tear apart what someone believes (if you can do that), but do it out of LOVE.

I remember when Bro Epley was posting here. When I first read his posts after I first got on here, he would make me furious! But after reading his stuff for a while, I figured out that Bro Epley was very confident in what he believed. No one was going to change his mind. He didn't NEED to post here to defend what he believes. He posted here because he loves people and because he truly believes in his own heart that the things he was posting about were important in the site of God, even vital for a person's salvation, he took the time to make his points. He truly believed that he was in a battle for people's souls. Whether I agreed with him and what he believed or not (most of which I did not), I had to respect him for that.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I think with these two names DA debunked the whole "its his posting sytle that bothers us so much" argument.

The other three were just as caustic and belligerent.

But who am I to say the masochists can't have it there way.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Charnock

AFF is not what it was. It used to be a place where people with diverse ideologies clashed.

No more.

Most of the conservative left to post behind closed doors, and banned those of us who dared to have an original thought of our own. Some folks have sacred cows, and because they CAN'T defend them, they create forums closed to the public because their message is too weak to stand up to scrutiny of any kind. Paul went to Mars Hill and proclaimed the gospel, some of these folks can't defend what their preaching (with use of scripture) against a studied layman.

Originally Posted by Charnock

AFF has one ideology. That ideology includes a venomous hatred for all things Oneness Pentecostal.

Not true on all accounts. I don't consider myself "oneness pentecostal" but rather just a Bible believing Christian. However, I still hold to the oneness of God, water baptism in Jesus name, and holiness of life. I believe in the gifts of the Spirit, healing, miracles, and lively worship. On some of these things I am in the minority here. Thats okay, I'm not really the tucking tail kind.

Originally Posted by Charnock

AFF is a church. A religious movement. A political action committee whose entire purpose is to tear down basic doctrinal truths like the Oneness of God, Holy Spirit baptism and the need for righteous living.

Charnock, this is pure schtick. AFF=a church?

On one hand I wish there was a little more censorship, but on the other hand that is what makes AFF what it is. The balance would be alot better if Bible believing Christians would stick around. But then again when you foundational doctrine is based on implicit scriptures in which there are many explicit scriptures stating the precise opposite, it makes it tough to stick around.

Originally Posted by Charnock

Hate your pastor? AFF is for you.

Not so, I don't hate my pastor or former pastor. I don't have hatred for anyone.

Originally Posted by Charnock

Hate being told no? AFF is for you.

Truth be told no one likes the word no. But you know what I really hate EA? I really hate to spend hours and days studing the word of God, praying and studying more to come to leadership with a legitimate question about a doctrine or teaching, and instead of receiving an answer be called "rebellious" "heritic" "charismatic" etc.

Originally Posted by Charnock

Hate absolutes? AFF is for you.

There is some truth to this, but you know why isn't anyone sticking around speaking out for a life of discipleship and true holiness (that which comes from the inside not, not vice versa) ? In this past week I've been making the arguments against secular music in worship service, against evolution, against easy believism, against the unrestrained spread of Islam on American soil, and the such like. And who is posting with me?

Originally Posted by Charnock

Deny God exists? AFF is for you.

I both like and dislike Timmy being here. I think there are plusses and minuses. The big plus would be if he saw Christianity here, and I believe there are those who have shown him that. The minus is when he sees such senselessness as if a woman trims here hair she's gonna split hell wide open. If you wear short or a short sleeved shirt your as lost as two boys kissin'. I sure bet those kind of statements make an agnostic hungry for God.

Originally Posted by Charnock

Mock tongue talkers? AFF is for you.

Actually, I believe in speaking in tongues. Very much so. I just don't believe it is the initial evidence of salvation. I believe were saved by grace justified by faith--is that terrible?

Originally Posted by Charnock

It IS revolting, and entirely sad. It wasn't always this way. The depth of blasphemy represented is staggering.

All the while the posse posts behind closed doors where their postings and their message cannot get out. A man once said the pen is more powerful than the sword.

If the gospel is hid, it is hid to them that are lost, so what sense does it make for so many to hide their words in the private password protected domain---that is unless their doing more tearing down of people than building up. More backbiting than upbuilding. Busy dam-ning more people than attempting to save.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Cindy

It's always sad when those claim that they are defending truth, are in reality defending, I am right. With no respect to any other. Liberal, moderate, or conservative, it doesn't matter which side you are on. Opinions are not the truth. And truth needs no defense. And on a forum like AFF, God get's dragged into the battle. As we are not defending HIS truth, but our own opinions, He is left on the way side. Personal attacks become common and of course there are always casualties. Some leave in a huff, some in hurt, and some in anger. But it doesn't seem to matter, there are others that will come along and start the battle over again.

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:35.

Excellent post.