The Mosque Should Be Built! - Page 6

Mr. Smith · #51 08-26-2010, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No, Im sure if it was a baptist church nothing would be said, well at least not a lot like this.

And I suppose that's my point. This appears to me to be a vindictive action against the Islamic religion.

coadie · #52 08-26-2010, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No, Im sure if it was a baptist church nothing would be said, well at least not a lot like this.

Westboro Baptist?

Praxeas · #53 08-26-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

But Praximus, those are valid reasons that every business or home has to go through in order to get city approval, and it has nothing to do with WHAT RELIGION they are. This just doesn't compare to what's happening in New York City.

Yes exactly. Now, let me ask, what if Fred Phelps wanted to build a church down the street from 9/11, you think everyone would be fine with it?

Is it really just about religion? Well at least we know it's not about race, but yes religion....Well it's really NOT just about religion, but religious extremism. Clearly people in that area, who initially opposed the mosque, are still sensitive to the whole issue. My concern is, why would these small handful of Muslims (who are getting millions to build this mosque from where?) not want to compromise in a show of good faith as Moderate muslims? It seems more like this is "in your face" politics. Yes,Islam is political. Mosques are NOT just places of worship. In fact I wonder if they get a tax exempt status since they preach politics to their masses. I mean, maybe it does not happen in US mosques, but it does all over the world. The Mosque is not just a religious place of worship. It really is their cultural center.

There are 2 kinds of Islam. Political and Religious. The two can't really be separated from each other but it's really the political part that has been a thorn in our side.

This is America, yes we have religious freedom. We also have freedom of ideas and opinions and the freedom to express them as long as we are not doing harm to someone else. There is no legal grounds that I know of yet to prevent this building, other than the possible money trail and the Imam that is heading this. But people have, on a moral grounds and a legal grounds their right to protest and express disagreement.

Your argument is a slippery slope fallacy. It presumes that if we oppose this, then it's all downhill from there for other religions including our own.

I don't see any good arguments for that.

I think a lot of this has more to do with politics than religion or race, but Im pretty sure most people don't realize it. For example, and we have not had a chance to see this work out,but what if the Muslims agreed to a compromise and build further away? We are assuming then that even then everyone would be opposed to a mosque. Yet New York is full of mosques.

It's this mosque in this area, which was the initial deal for many and it's this Imam and His politics (and do a degree religious views) that has garnered the larger opposition.

And while we have freedoms of religion and even political views, we have freedom to be dissidents as long as we are not causing an uprising. We have freedoms to oppose this Mosque and say why.

That they have freedom of religion does not negate anyone elses freedom of opinion and protest

Praxeas · #54 08-26-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

And I suppose that's my point. This appears to me to be a vindictive action against the Islamic religion.

I don't think so. The ONLY reason it got on the map and into nation wide news is because it's so close to ground zero AND because of the Imam involved.

Pressing-On · #55 08-26-2010, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes exactly. Now, let me ask, what if Fred Phelps wanted to build a church down the street from 9/11, you think everyone would be fine with it?

Is it really just about religion? Well at least we know it's not about race, but yes religion....Well it's really NOT just about religion, but religious extremism. Clearly people in that area, who initially opposed the mosque, are still sensitive to the whole issue. My concern is, why would these small handful of Muslims (who are getting millions to build this mosque from where?) not want to compromise in a show of good faith as Moderate muslims? It seems more like this is "in your face" politics. Yes,Islam is political. Mosques are NOT just places of worship. In fact I wonder if they get a tax exempt status since they preach politics to their masses. I mean, maybe it does not happen in US mosques, but it does all over the world. The Mosque is not just a religious place of worship. It really is their cultural center.

There are 2 kinds of Islam. Political and Religious. The two can't really be separated from each other but it's really the political part that has been a thorn in our side.

This is America, yes we have religious freedom. We also have freedom of ideas and opinions and the freedom to express them as long as we are not doing harm to someone else. There is no legal grounds that I know of yet to prevent this building, other than the possible money trail and the Imam that is heading this. But people have, on a moral grounds and a legal grounds their right to protest and express disagreement.

Your argument is a slippery slope fallacy. It presumes that if we oppose this, then it's all downhill from there for other religions including our own.

I don't see any good arguments for that.

I think a lot of this has more to do with politics than religion or race, but Im pretty sure most people don't realize it. For example, and we have not had a chance to see this work out,but what if the Muslims agreed to a compromise and build further away? We are assuming then that even then everyone would be opposed to a mosque. Yet New York is full of mosques.

It's this mosque in this area, which was the initial deal for many and it's this Imam and His politics (and do a degree religious views) that has garnered the larger opposition.

And while we have freedoms of religion and even political views, we have freedom to be dissidents as long as we are not causing an uprising. We have freedoms to oppose this Mosque and say why.

That they have freedom of religion does not negate anyone elses freedom of opinion and protest

Excellent post, Prax!

coadie · #56 08-26-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

And I suppose that's my point. This appears to me to be a vindictive action against the Islamic religion.

It isn't vindictive at all. They make the false charge of vindictiveness. It is manipulation and apparently you fell for it. If your claim of vindictiveness was honest, they would have expressed vindictiveness at other mosques.
They have whinned for years in Palestine area and it works there.

Pressing-On · #57 08-26-2010, 06:31 PM

Feisal Abdul Rauf in 2006: U.S. terrorism fostered Islamic terrorism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Quk...yer_embedded#!

Maximilian · #58 08-26-2010, 06:48 PM

It may be a right, but it doesn't mean it's right.

Legality and civility are separate in this issue. The government can't say no, but the people surely can. They have made their case as well.

It's not all Crusading Karate Kids looking to bust some Middle Eastern hiney either. A bi-partisan disapproval from decent American citizens chiming in about a domestic issue. It's a bad move for those wishing to heal relations in the Muslim community -- regardless if the Imam represents them or not.

Mr. Smith · #59 08-26-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximilian

It may be a right, but it doesn't mean it's right.

Legality and civility are separate in this issue. The government can't say no, but the people surely can. They have made their case as well.

It's not all Crusading Karate Kids looking to bust some Middle Eastern hiney either. A bi-partisan disapproval from decent American citizens chiming in about a domestic issue. It's a bad move for those wishing to heal relations in the Muslim community -- regardless if the Imam represents them or not.

But if "The People" don't want it, what difference does it make? They have no power to prevent it outside of legal means.

Mr. Smith · #60 08-26-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes exactly. Now, let me ask, what if Fred Phelps wanted to build a church down the street from 9/11, you think everyone would be fine with it?

Is it really just about religion? Well at least we know it's not about race, but yes religion....Well it's really NOT just about religion, but religious extremism. Clearly people in that area, who initially opposed the mosque, are still sensitive to the whole issue. My concern is, why would these small handful of Muslims (who are getting millions to build this mosque from where?) not want to compromise in a show of good faith as Moderate muslims? It seems more like this is "in your face" politics. Yes,Islam is political. Mosques are NOT just places of worship. In fact I wonder if they get a tax exempt status since they preach politics to their masses. I mean, maybe it does not happen in US mosques, but it does all over the world. The Mosque is not just a religious place of worship. It really is their cultural center.

There are 2 kinds of Islam. Political and Religious. The two can't really be separated from each other but it's really the political part that has been a thorn in our side.

This is America, yes we have religious freedom. We also have freedom of ideas and opinions and the freedom to express them as long as we are not doing harm to someone else. There is no legal grounds that I know of yet to prevent this building, other than the possible money trail and the Imam that is heading this. But people have, on a moral grounds and a legal grounds their right to protest and express disagreement.

Your argument is a slippery slope fallacy. It presumes that if we oppose this, then it's all downhill from there for other religions including our own.

I don't see any good arguments for that.

I think a lot of this has more to do with politics than religion or race, but Im pretty sure most people don't realize it. For example, and we have not had a chance to see this work out,but what if the Muslims agreed to a compromise and build further away? We are assuming then that even then everyone would be opposed to a mosque. Yet New York is full of mosques.

It's this mosque in this area, which was the initial deal for many and it's this Imam and His politics (and do a degree religious views) that has garnered the larger opposition.

And while we have freedoms of religion and even political views, we have freedom to be dissidents as long as we are not causing an uprising. We have freedoms to oppose this Mosque and say why.

That they have freedom of religion does not negate anyone elses freedom of opinion and protest

Fred Phelps is apples and oranges, here. He has taken direct action that is widely considered indecent. This local mosque, has not. There are plenty of insinuations flying but nothing directly.

You say, "There are 2 kinds of Islam. Political and Religious. The two can't really be separated from each other...". Couldn't the same be said about Christianity? I would say, absolutely, "Yes." And this is my point all along. Whatever judgement is handed out here, will come right back upon Christianity.