UPC doctrinal contradiction

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

What happens to the sinner who places faith in Jesus Christ? He is justified. The word justified is a legal term denoting right standing or vindication in the eyes of the law. In the context of this verse, the verb “to justify” means “to count as righteous, to declare righteous.” God declares the believer to be righteous and therefore entitled to all privileges of that status, including eternal salvation. God removes the guilt and condemnation of sin. He removes sin’s stain both from His records and from man’s conscience. “A man who has faith is now freely acquitted in the eyes of God by his generous dealing in the Redemptive Act of Jesus Christ” pg. 89-90 (the last sentance is a quote from Phillips that Bernard uses)

Justification comes freely. It comes through faith, not works or legal obedience. Justification is not merited, earned, or deserved. The source of justification is the grace of God. pg.89

If we believe in Christ and what He did for us, then His work becomes effective in our lives.pg 92

In other words, the propitiation is effective because of two things: blood and faith. The propitiation itself came by the blood of Christ. We apply the propitiation to our lives through faith. The basis of justification, then, is the blood of Christ. pg.92

In summary, Romans 3:21-26 is one of the key passages of the Book of Romans and indeed of the entire Bible. It explains the fundamental principles of salvation for all mankind and enunciates the doctrine of justification by faith: on the basis of Christ’s death, God freely declares sinners to be righteous through their faith in Jesus Christ. pg. 94

God counts us righteous because of our faith in Him, not because of good works or strict adherence to law. We are justified “apart from the deeds of the law.” We cannot earn salvation in any way. God does not reward our good works or our holiness by granting salvation. We do not live holy in order to be saved; we live holy because we are saved. We do not work to salvation; we work from salvation. pg.95-96

“As Paul elsewhere shows, faith will result in obedience, and justification will issue in holy living, but the truth that justification is by faith alone is the very heart of Christianity.” pg. 96 (Bernard quotes Erdman)

Justification by faith does not mean mental acceptance instead of obedience, nor does it mean believing instead of doing. Rather it means pleading the merits of Christ instead of our own merits. p.100



Theres alot more. I have recently read William Barlcay's commentary on Romans and Warren Wieserbe's commentary on Romans. DKB's is almost verbatim, with the exception of the insertion of the "note of saving faith" which appears beginning on page .99, in which note he equates saving faith with obedience to Acts 2:38 (as interpreted by the three stepper crowd). My point being, lets just allow the word to speak to us, and not redefine what it says, or say "well it says this, BUT it really means this." IOW, let me change the definition of faith, then I can say the same things all the mainstream guys do. Basically what it boils down to, because even though Bernards comments basically mirror what I have read from others, His meaning is completely different.

which is why I only agree with half of what Bernard says. I would have to reread Bernard as it's been a while to clarify the context he uses.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Here is the quote from the AOF...which you can not find on the UPCI website

Pardon and forgiveness of sins is obtained by genuine repentance, a confessing and forsaking of sins. We are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5:1). John the Baptist preached repentance, Jesus proclaimed it, and the apostles emphasized it to both Jews and Gentiles (Acts 2:38, 11:18, 17:30).

The word "repentance" means a change of views and purpose, change of heart, change of mind, change of life, transformation, etc.
Jesus said, "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3).
Luke 24:47 says, "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

I didn't realize the AoF were still so "PCI"

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I don't know about that one prax, I think hes speaking out of both sides of his mouth, depending on the subject. I may post some quotes later, right now I don't feel like it. And I like Bernards stuff, I know some people have something against him, but if I'm reading something form a oneness author DKB is my favorite, but I'm just telling it like I've read it.

speaking out of both sides of his mouth?
well, he's a politician-- what else would you expect?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Christ did not distinguish remission of sins from repentance. He distinguished the word repentance from the word remission/forgiveness. They are two different words, like gun and bullet are, but it takes a gun to shoot a bullet

It is my opinion that Luke 24:47 and Acts 10:43; Acts 11:18; Acts 15:9 all teach that forgiveness/remission, and salvation, and eternal life all happen at repentance/faith.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

What happens to the sinner who places faith in Jesus Christ? He is justified. The word justified is a legal term denoting right standing or vindication in the eyes of the law. In the context of this verse, the verb “to justify” means “to count as righteous, to declare righteous.” God declares the believer to be righteous and therefore entitled to all privileges of that status, including eternal salvation. God removes the guilt and condemnation of sin. He removes sin’s stain both from His records and from man’s conscience. “A man who has faith is now freely acquitted in the eyes of God by his generous dealing in the Redemptive Act of Jesus Christ” pg. 89-90 (the last sentance is a quote from Phillips that Bernard uses)

Justification comes freely. It comes through faith, not works or legal obedience. Justification is not merited, earned, or deserved. The source of justification is the grace of God. pg.89

If we believe in Christ and what He did for us, then His work becomes effective in our lives.pg 92

In other words, the propitiation is effective because of two things: blood and faith. The propitiation itself came by the blood of Christ. We apply the propitiation to our lives through faith. The basis of justification, then, is the blood of Christ. pg.92

In summary, Romans 3:21-26 is one of the key passages of the Book of Romans and indeed of the entire Bible. It explains the fundamental principles of salvation for all mankind and enunciates the doctrine of justification by faith: on the basis of Christ’s death, God freely declares sinners to be righteous through their faith in Jesus Christ. pg. 94

God counts us righteous because of our faith in Him, not because of good works or strict adherence to law. We are justified “apart from the deeds of the law.” We cannot earn salvation in any way. God does not reward our good works or our holiness by granting salvation. We do not live holy in order to be saved; we live holy because we are saved. We do not work to salvation; we work from salvation. pg.95-96

“As Paul elsewhere shows, faith will result in obedience, and justification will issue in holy living, but the truth that justification is by faith alone is the very heart of Christianity.” pg. 96 (Bernard quotes Erdman)

Justification by faith does not mean mental acceptance instead of obedience, nor does it mean believing instead of doing. Rather it means pleading the merits of Christ instead of our own merits. p.100



Theres alot more. I have recently read William Barlcay's commentary on Romans and Warren Wieserbe's commentary on Romans. DKB's is almost verbatim, with the exception of the insertion of the "note of saving faith" which appears beginning on page .99, in which note he equates saving faith with obedience to Acts 2:38 (as interpreted by the three stepper crowd). My point being, lets just allow the word to speak to us, and not redefine what it says, or say "well it says this, BUT it really means this." IOW, let me change the definition of faith, then I can say the same things all the mainstream guys do. Basically what it boils down to, because even though Bernards comments basically mirror what I have read from others, His meaning is completely different.

Sad, that he proclaims all that truth about justification by faith and then has to go and create his own definition of faith and say it means obedience or doing certain works so it can fit in with the UPC performance based religion.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Sam

Sad, that he proclaims all that truth about justification by faith and then has to go and create his own definition of faith and say it means obedience or doing certain works so it can fit in with the UPC performance based religion.

so one is not justified by obedience? LOL YEs... judgment by deeds is based on obedience/faithfulness.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sam

well, in 1973 the fundamental doctrine statement was revised to say that it happens at baptism.

Where? Is that different than the AOF?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sam

I didn't realize the AoF were still so "PCI"

That's my point. I have a recent copy

[OilCityCajun]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Christ did not distinguish remission of sins from repentance. He distinguished the word repentance from the word remission/forgiveness. They are two different words, like gun and bullet are, but it takes a gun to shoot a bullet

And yet a gun is not a bullet, nor a bullet, a gun. Neither forgiveness nor remission is efficacious without the other, just as neither a gun nor a bullet is efficacious without the other. And yet, if there was no difference between the two, why would Christ say áphesis kai áphesis should be preached in His name? "...Repentance/Remission and/even Repentance/Remission...?" Even in Greek that doesnt make sense! And you still havent addressed Christ's distinction between swept and garnished.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I have never been UPC. To me it seems it was a big mistake that the two former organizations compromised and came together in the first place.

A big mistake?!

Two groups of baptized, Spirit filled believers thought they had enough in common to make it work, and for over 70 years it did.

They preached in each others churches, not contending for their different views, but preaching the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord.

These brethren worked hand in hand, side by side, building churches and districts, sending forth missionaries to the four corners of the planet.

Millions came to know the saving grace of Jesus Christ, and multitudes were healed of every kind infirmity.

They built an organization that at one time was something to be imitated. They showed the Christian community that UNITY truly does work...

How can THAT be a bad thing?!