'Cause I'm Scared

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I remember the first time I went to see a movie - - I just knew the Lord was going to come while I was in there. I wasn't convicted of seeing the G rated movie, nothing happened and I lived to tell it, but I was scared to death the whole time I was in there.

LOL!

I remember back a few years, before we left the UPCI church we were attending to start the work we are in currently. My wife and I were ON A DATE for our anniversary, and I wanted to take her to see The Notebook - it was just released into theaters. She is a Nicholas Sparks fan and had already read the book, and I thought it would be an enjoyable way for two adults to spend an evening.

As we were leaving the theater (it's hard to write this without laughing to myself at how ridiculous this is), we saw a group of young people from the church IN THE PARKING LOT OF THE THEATER. Panic stricken, there we were... two grown-ups, late 30's, cowering and hiding behind a van until the two young couples walked away toward the theater... so afraid that we would be seen and it would get back to the master (er... I mean pastor) that we were seen at the sinful picture show. The irony of it all sure is not lost on us, but the fear was VERY real.

And this situation is very similar to what you said, D4T about your MIL. Our ex-master (there I go again... I mean ex-pastor) absolutely forbids anyone of "his saints" to go to movies, but does only "discourages" home viewing of the same videos. Also, he thinks nothing of going with his family and friends to live theater and IMAX. A little inconsistent, I think.

Your post took me back to that night, Renda. Oh... the crazy things we are fearful about.

[EA]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

How many things do we/have we obeyed... not because we felt it was an actual command from God... but because... just in case... you never know... It might send me to hell?


Or because of our fear of what others might say. You can know for certain that you will be shunned and talked about when you cross certain lines.

I have recently been involved in a conversation that has brought up old fears and made me realize that, in many ways, I am quite the coward on some things.

There are some things that, while I still prefer them, I don't see that the interpretation of scripture I have been taught is true to the word itself. But... I'd rather stick with it because it is easier than living with the ridicule.

It would be so nice to know what part of my fears... even my convictions... are Gods... and which are not.

Has anyone else walked this road?

Great thread, D4T.

I was raised in a church in which the the pastor drove saints through fear and intimidation rather than leading through love.

His methods were extreme. Anything from scary rapture and demon films to the rock music seminars that focused on subliminal messages that could only be found by playing the music backwards. On one occasion, I can even remember an altar call to the song "Hotel California."

The fear and manipulation worked for a while. People would run to the altar at the end of the films, "pray through" and get baptized, only to walk away a few weeks or months later when the fear wore off. So, what the pastor learned is that fear keeps 'em around, therefore, more fear = better results. Lots of sermons about Hell, being left behind and submission were preached on a very regular basis.

In fact, I never heard a sermon on the fruit of the Spirit until I was a grown man. Never heard a sermon or Bible study about propitiation, reconciliation or righteousness until I was an adult.

That sort of environment is hard to escape, and from time to time I catch myself imitating what I learned. In those moments, I become very disgusted with myself.

I can remember the pastor calling for a seven day water fast, and then, when it was over, asking every one who had "made it" through the entire fast to walk up to the platform. The overcomers stood on the platform with him, and the rest of teh church stayed in their seats. He then told the "failures" that revival would come through those who had completed the fast, leaving the rest of the congregation to feel as though they had somehow failed God.

He separated the good from the bad in a very real and visible way. Many people left the church over the events of that evening, but many more came, because the pastor was very charismatic and passionate in evangelistic zeal.

I could tell stories about my childhood experiences in that church all day long, but I doubt the stories would change anything. Most people would just label me a bitter liberal.

My family eventually left that church because they felt like nothing they did was ever good enough. There was no joy in living for God. They've never come back.

In reality, they escaped from a cult. They are no longer in the situation, but they are still infuenced by what they experienced.

In the same way, I am still influenced by those fears. The idea that I can speak in tongues, feel God's presence in a mighty way, and still wonder if I will go to Heaven because I'm not following those same "rules" I learned so many years ago.

It's been thirty years, but the fear is still there. It's there even though I know those doctrines were not, and are not, Biblical.

I am left with this impression. Fear is not logical, and any preacher or church that peddles a doctrine of fear, with no attention to the love of God, is a cult.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by jaamez

LOL!

I remember back a few years, before we left the UPCI church we were attending to start the work we are in currently. My wife and I were ON A DATE for our anniversary, and I wanted to take her to see The Notebook - it was just released into theaters. She is a Nicholas Sparks fan and had already read the book, and I thought it would be an enjoyable way for two adults to spend an evening.

As we were leaving the theater (it's hard to write this without laughing to myself at how ridiculous this is), we saw a group of young people from the church IN THE PARKING LOT OF THE THEATER. Panic stricken, there we were... two grown-ups, late 30's, cowering and hiding behind a van until the two young couples walked away toward the theater... so afraid that we would be seen and it would get back to the master (er... I mean pastor) that we were seen at the sinful picture show. The irony of it all sure is not lost on us, but the fear was VERY real.

And this situation is very similar to what you said, D4T about your MIL. Our ex-master (there I go again... I mean ex-pastor) absolutely forbids anyone of "his saints" to go to movies, but does only "discourages" home viewing of the same videos. Also, he thinks nothing of going with his family and friends to live theater and IMAX. A little inconsistent, I think.

Your post took me back to that night, Renda. Oh... the crazy things we are fearful about.

Yep... and my MIL always cites the "atmosphere".

We don't go to movies often. With a little patience I can see the movie with my entire family for $1 from Red Box and we don't have a lot of money to be doing that very often.

The place we go is BY FAR a better "environment" than most restaurants. No beer, no smoking, mostly families, buy a large Popcorn & Drink and the refills are free.

As a matter of fact I can think of no place (restaurant, mall, putt putt golf course...) that has a better "atmosphere" than the movie theaters that we go to.

Of course... when we do go we don't go on opening weekends because we are not fans of the big rushing crowds that we assume must be there on those days.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

It's been thirty years, but the fear is still there. It's there even though I know those doctrines were not, and are not, Biblical.

Yes sir... and...you know... I try to keep this in mind when dealing with people who came from bad homes. 30 years later and the fears are still there. What about people who came from abusive homes? We are often impatient with them and feel they need to "get over it". (OH I hate that phrase... and I don't "hate" much)

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

I am left with this impression. Fear is not logical, and any preacher or church that peddles a doctrine of fear, with no attention to the love of God, is a cult.

Indeed... and if HE hath not given us a spirit of fear... who did?

[Margies3]

I have friends who have said to me (and still say) they would rather never wear a pair of pants again (or go to movies, or.....) and then get to heaven eventually and find out that it would have been ok to do it anyways, then to one day get to heaven and find out that wearing the pants (going to movies, etc.) was enough to keep them out of heaven. They're interested in erring on the side of caution (so they say).

I used to buy into that out of fear, just like alot of others.

But one day, I was praying about this issue (this is after I had left the Apostolic church, but was still struggling with the standards stuff). It occurred to me while praying that if not wearing pants, staying out of movie theaters, etc., could assure me salvation, then there really was no need for Jesus to pay the ultimate sacrifice on that horrible cross, was there? God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and love and of a sound mind. It was like the blinders came off that day and I realized at that time that JESUS had paid for my salvation. I didn't need to.

[Margies3]

Now, on the flip side of that coin, let me also say this..........

I have friends who won't wear a pair of pants, cut their hair or many others things. Their reason for living that way is not because they believe that doing so will keep them out of heaven. They don't believe that at all. What they do believe is that when they dress that way, or refuse to go to certain places, etc., they are being pleasing to God. They're doing this out of their LOVE for Him and their desire to please Him. That is a whole different thing than to abstain from something out of FEAR that God will punish them eternally for doing it.

If I knew that letting my hair grow would please my husband, I would do it in a heartbeat. It's the same thing. If I believed that God would care one iota about how long my hair is, (or if I'm wearing pants, etc.), then I would do that in a heartbeat. Never a question asked. I don't think God cares about that FOR ME. If YOU think He cares what YOU wear, then you have to go according to what your heart is telling you. Maybe you think God thinks you are prettier with long hair? I don't know. honestly. But if you think it is pleasing to God for you to do something, than by all means do it.

On the other hand, if you think that Jesus' death on the cross was only the deposit on your salvation, and that you have to continue to add to the account by dressing a certain way, then you've made what Jesus did a farce.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Now, on the flip side of that coin, let me also say this..........

I have friends who won't wear a pair of pants, cut their hair or many others things. Their reason for living that way is not because they believe that doing so will keep them out of heaven. They don't believe that at all. What they do believe is that when they dress that way, or refuse to go to certain places, etc., they are being pleasing to God. They're doing this out of their LOVE for Him and their desire to please Him. That is a whole different thing than to abstain from something out of FEAR that God will punish them eternally for doing it.

If I knew that letting my hair grow would please my husband, I would do it in a heartbeat. It's the same thing. If I believed that God would care one iota about how long my hair is, (or if I'm wearing pants, etc.), then I would do that in a heartbeat. Never a question asked. I don't think God cares about that FOR ME. If YOU think He cares what YOU wear, then you have to go according to what your heart is telling you. Maybe you think God thinks you are prettier with long hair? I don't know. honestly. But if you think it is pleasing to God for you to do something, than by all means do it.

On the other hand, if you think that Jesus' death on the cross was only the deposit on your salvation, and that you have to continue to add to the account by dressing a certain way, then you've made what Jesus did a farce.

I think most people are just told that God is more pleased with such things and so they do them.

[GraceAmazing]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Just saying I think TV is dangerous if not monitored and controlled.

Too much of anything that is not monitored or controlled is dangerous ...not just TV. Spending too much time on an internet forum can be dangerous if it is not monitored and controlled...Just my two cents...

You have to pray and seek guidance for YOUR family...If you are truly seeking God's will, He WILL give you the answers you desire. However, having being raised UPC...my mindset still plays a factor in everything I do...STILL. When we left, it was the TOUGHEST decision on one hand because both of our parents and our families are still VERY MUCH UPC, but it was the easiest one on the other hand because we finally realized what WE believed! Whew...sigh! Praying for all of you that are currently walking down this road...it is not a simple or easy situation to work thru!

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

In the same way, I am still influenced by those fears. The idea that I can speak in tongues, feel God's presence in a mighty way, and still wonder if I will go to Heaven because I'm not following those same "rules" I learned so many years ago.

It's been thirty years, but the fear is still there. It's there even though I know those doctrines were not, and are not, Biblical.

This is so sad, but I know exactly what you are saying. It takes a long, long time to overcome that and as we are saying here - you don't ever completely overcome it.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by GraceAmazing

Too much of anything that is not monitored or controlled is dangerous ...not just TV. Spending too much time on an internet forum can be dangerous if it is not monitored and controlled...Just my two cents...

You have to pray and seek guidance for YOUR family...If you are truly seeking God's will, He WILL give you the answers you desire. However, having being raised UPC...my mindset still plays a factor in everything I do...STILL. When we left, it was the TOUGHEST decision on one hand because both of our parents and our families are still VERY MUCH UPC, but it was the easiest one on the other hand because we finally realized what WE believed! Whew...sigh! Praying for all of you that are currently walking down this road...it is not a simple or easy situation to work thru!

And you basically are still going to be walking that same road for a while too. It doesn't just happen in a year or two.