Talking point: Life expectancy/Healthcare rebuttal

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Ferd

and this aint GE's first round of being in bed with the demonrats in congress.

GE (parent company of NBC) used NBC news to create a "Green week" where they highlighted global warming and all the things that can help slow that.

MANY of their solutions were products that GE makes.

This Green Week happened to take place the week BEFORE Congress voted on a bill that killed the incandecent light bulb in favor of those stupid florecent bulbs that cost a whole not more and provide much worse lighting..... and also are full of mercury that is now filling our landfills....


and guess who is the largest maker of florecetn screw in lightbulbs that are now replacing the incandecent bulb?

GpelosiE

China.
Ge Isn't stupid low labor costs there and Mercury? No problemo.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by coadie

China.
Ge Isn't stupid low labor costs there and Mercury? No problemo.

.... in America. seriously re-read...

the answer is General Electric.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Ferd

.... in America. seriously re-read...

the answer is General Electric.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonath...g_b_94420.html


General Electric: Killing Chinese Workers For A Cleaner Environment
On top of the health violations, the plant:


...violates numerous provisions of China's labor law at its plant in Xiamen, Fujian Province,
including:

• Requiring work hours that are longer than the permitted maximum average in 2007 of 203.4 hours a month;

• Providing no pay stubs, so workers can't tell if they are being correctly paid;

• Not paying overtime for work in excess of 8 hours a day or on the sixth day of work each week, which under Chinese law is to be a day of rest; and

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by coadie

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonath...g_b_94420.html


General Electric: Killing Chinese Workers For A Cleaner Environment
On top of the health violations, the plant:


...violates numerous provisions of China's labor law at its plant in Xiamen, Fujian Province,
including:

• Requiring work hours that are longer than the permitted maximum average in 2007 of 203.4 hours a month;

• Providing no pay stubs, so workers can't tell if they are being correctly paid;

• Not paying overtime for work in excess of 8 hours a day or on the sixth day of work each week, which under Chinese law is to be a day of rest; and

Proof that liberals really are the devil.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by coadie

Of course, Mr. Immelt's rhetoric about corporate responsibility was undercut last year when GE's once vaunted financial services business, GE Capital, was forced to ask the government for what amounted to a $140 billion government bailout.

Mr. Immelt's words betray GE's willingness to partner with the Obama government in order to turn a profit. To this end, GE has appointed Mr. Obama's former nominee for secretary of health and human services, Tom Daschle, to the board of advisers for Healthymagination, an initiative launched by General Electric in partnership along with Intel, which will invest $6 billion over the next six years on "health care innovation that will help deliver better care to more people at lower cost."

In 2008, Mr. Daschle wrote the book "Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis" in which he explains his radical solutions to the problems in American health care. In the book, Mr. Daschle calls for a British-style Federal Council on health care.

The profitability of GE's new venture will depend heavily on the nationalization of the health care industry. The standardization and streamlining of health care recordkeeping, something on which Mr. Obama ran in 2008, would require a massive government contract for the technology to achieve such standardization.

Mr. Obama has introduced a plan to computerize all health records within five years. Independent studies from Harvard, Rand Corp. and the Commonwealth Fund have estimated that such a plan could cost at least $75 billion to $100 billion over the next 10 years. Healthymagination is readying just such a technology, claiming that they will seek to "increase the use and capability of electronic medical record (EMR) technology and other information technology." With Mr. Obama's ally Mr. Daschle on board, Healthymagination is sure to have more than a leg up on its competition when it comes time to dole out these massive contracts.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...orate-sponsor/

Sounds like more government control on what product you will have to buy.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Esther

Sounds like more government control on what product you will have to buy.

the nannie state. Next you will have to use a union electrician to change a light bulb.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by coadie

the nannie state. Next you will have to use a union electrician to change a light bulb.

You know you joke but you are probably not that far off.

A friend of mine moved to New York. Bought a new refrigerator, dishwasher and stove. Had to get a PERMIT to change them out!

[Walks_in_islam]

I have been busy. So do allow me to take the time to answer your comments 1x1. First, your assumption that I am in any way, shape, or form a liberal is hooey. I am…hmmmm...lol a capitalist I guess. Here is your answer from someone who does not accept the current system and has decided that being paid for the value of your work, being responsible for your own retirement, and taking care of your own family is one's personal responsibility

I also did not say "America needs healthcare reform because the Brits live longer than us". I did note that on a statistical basis America, with the "best healthcare system in the world" ranks nearly dead last among industrialized nations. I also noted that the difference between America and these nations is that they have public healthcare systems. These are statistical facts and worthy of note.

Sure Healthcare is one factor in a nation’s life expectancy.

It is kind of you to admit that. Statistics show, time and again, between neighbors, in the same city and the same state, same foods, same lifestyles, that access to basic, routine healthcare makes a difference in both the length and quality of life. Residents of the countries mentioned have the same lifestyles, same bad habits, same or in case more (lol) access to "alternate" substances, that Americans do. Yet there is a marked difference. In some cases not months, but years of difference in how long they live. Healthcare access can and does make a difference. Swaziland is not a viable basis for comparison. Australia, Canada, the UK, and western Europe is. I do not deny or question that there are reporting discrepencies in things like "infant mortality". Healthcare is about people who are already born and living. You, Coadie, and the rest of your excuses for being on the bottom of the list do not compute. You have either never been to Europe or Australia or don't know anyone from Europe or Australia or if you have been there you sure did not mingle with those people lol. I dunno about Canada. Never mingled with them. Funny how the border is packed with our retirees who go there for their medications.

Now, about comparison. A real (as opposed to made up) tale of (2) surgeries.

Patient 1 and Patient 2. Patient 1 lives in Houston. Blew out a knee doing "young people stuff". Patient 2 lives in the UK. (2) years age difference. Did same thing. Exactly same injury.

Healthcare costs: Patient 2 was paying 15% tax for the public system. Patient 1 was paying $460/month which was 20% of plan costs with employer ponying up another $1840 per month. For the policy. Patient 1 made a lot of money that year. The cost of employee/employer equaled 14.8% of patient 1's salary. Had patient 1 been making average median income for that year the cost of health coverage would have been a whopping 55%.

Patient 1 was covered by a good policy with UHC. Patient 2 was covered under the public healthcare system in the UK.

(1) Appointment. Patient 1's brother is an orthopedic surgeon in Tn. With help patient 1 identified an orthopedic doctor who was on his plan. Said doctor was president of the Texas orthopedic association and thus considered excellent. Appointment was made for (4) days later. MRI scan was done next day. Patient 2 contacted his public administrator. Appointment was made 6 days later and MRI done next day.

(2) Surgery. Both patients scheduled for surgery. Patient (1) was done 5 days later. Patient (2) was done (1) week later. Both patients were in physical therapy and walking (3) days after surgery.

Here's the fun part:

Patient (2)'s experience was complete. Patient (1) paid the doctor his (plan discounted) 20%. Ditto for the MRI and the anestheologist. Then: Patient 1 discovered that though the doctor was part of his insurance plan, the outpatient facility (with the same name) was not. Hit with a $600 deductible then 30%. Next discovery: Neither was the anestheologist. Another 30% but the deductible at least was paid. Patient 1 paid an additional $3000 on top of health insurance costs. Patient 2 payed nothing on top of the 15% he was already paying.

WHO HAD THE BETTER HEALTHCARE SYSTEM?

Both patients are currently under another public health plan in another country. There is no out of pocket charge for anything.

You think patient 1, who was already paying 15% of his salary ANYWAY, cares if it gets reduced to 12% and coverted to a tax if that caps the cost? You think patient 1 and every single American who is lucky enough to get healthcare is not ALREADY paying for those who need and get critical care and pay nothing now?

In the UK if you need a hip replacement you might wait, but you get it. In America if you need a hip replacement AND YOU DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO INSURANCE they do not get the hip replacement at all. Nor do they get treatment for things like heart conditions (until they end up in the emergency room then if you think the paying patients aren't covering that too I will re-comment that you are numb). Ditto for a host of other chronic health problems that build into major issues and cost us anyway. THAT's why healthcare reform is needed.

I will brief you on some other things as well. The world is a big place. Healthcare is big business. Are you fooled like Coadie in that patients from other countries who need major treatment go to the US to get it? When is the last time you saw an actual AMERICAN specialist? LOL Healthcare (cancer treatment, spine surgery, heart surgery, etc) like the rest of your jobs has moved overseas and the cost is a fraction of what is paid in the US. Capitalism at work my friend. Research this and get back to me. If you need them I will provide you charts of the cost of major medical procedures in other countries vs the US.

I made a backhand remark about "white insured" as a joke. That seems to be the loudest demographic against reform. I guess I should be included in that as well. The conclusions that I see drawn are only true from that standpoint or viewpoint. It would have been nice for that demographic to have recognized this and addressed this problem when they were in charge. Especially when they inherited a relatively robust economy and an annual budget surplus. Instead, they steered us into wars, record deficits, and re-instituited the greed culture (aka the culture of something for nothing invention of paper value with no building of real business value) while ignoring issues that truly threaten us as a country. As more and more lose access to healthcare and the public system that is in place becomes overwhelmed the necessity to do something has become acute. I do not think the right is capable of this. The chance to do it has come and passed. Meanwhile, the US is slipping further and further behind.

[Walks_in_islam]

Your words: In Swaziland, such a large portion of the adult population has AIDS that their life expectancy as a nation is below 32 years. This is less about the healthcare system than it is about a nation of people who have a culture that is rife with dangerous sexual behavior. It is killing that nation!


The words of real healthcare professionals:

"Today, I can tell my patients with HIV that they can have a normal life expectancy," said Stefano Vella, director of drug research and evaluation at the Institute Superiore di Sanita in Rome

"The ability to hold the virus at bay for years now has doctors looking far forward in treating patients because 70 percent of patients infected with HIV will die of something other than AIDS", said Eric Daar, chief of HIV medicine at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center in Los Angeles.


You still want to make that "lifestyle" and "dangerous sexual behavior" claim or that "healthcare does not make a difference?" You need some more examples or do you have any more specific deseases you need to discuss or right-wing myths you need de-bunked?

[Pressing-On]

Intrade is bidding the gov't health plan contract at 38 cents. Down from 50 cents in July.

Share prices of the big private insurers have rallied.

United Healthcare - up 13%
Humana - up 12.4%
Aetna - up, almost, 10%

These firms would be decimated if the health-plan passes - Investors are predicting that it won't.