you dont build roads out of a recession. You stimulate business and businesses get us out of recessions.
BINGO..............This is not a stimulus for private business, this is a stimulus for GOVERNMENT.
If you think more government is the answer you should be thrilled at this package.
If you think gov't is the answer as Obama said, you should be ecstatic about this bill.
If you think stimulating private business is the answer as I do, this is a sad, sad day.
I didn't agree with George Bush's fiscal policies. Obama's promise of change was to reverse those spending policies. It was pure garbage. Even if Obama is a one termer,
I believe the damage he will do in 4 years will be everlasting.
I hope I'm wrong.
Then I'm asking what your plan for stimulating "private" business is?
If you say tax cuts, I say you're wrong in this situation because even though a business has extra cash on hand from a tax break doesn't mean that business would invest it into new jobs or more production in this state of economic upheavel and crisis.
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In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Augustine
The Return of Welfare As We Knew It
February 10, 2009
"TANF has been a remarkable success. Welfare caseloads nationally fell from 12.6 million in 1997 to fewer than five million in 2007. And yet despite this achievement, House Democrats are seeking to undo Mr. Clinton's reforms under the cover of the stimulus bill.
"Currently, welfare recipients are limited to a total of five years of federal benefits over a lifetime. They're also required to begin working after two years of government support. States are accountable for helping their needy citizens transition from handouts to self-sufficiency. Critically, the funds provided to states are fixed appropriations by the federal government.
"Through a little noticed provision of the stimulus package that has passed the House of Representatives, the bill creates a fund for TANF that is open-ended -- the same way Medicare and Social Security are." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1234...s_opinion_main
Quote:
CHANGE FOR THE WORSE
January 30, 2009
"[T]he new 'stimulus' bill abolishes the limits on the amount of federal money for the so-called Emergency Fund, which ships welfare cash to states.
"'Out of any money in the Treasury of the United States not otherwise appropriated, there are appropriated such sums as are necessary for payment to the Emergency Fund,' Democrats wrote in Section 2101 on Page 354 of the $819 billion bill. In other words, the only limit on welfare payments would be the Treasury itself.
"'This re-establishes the welfare state and creates dependency all over the place,' said one startled budget analyst after reading the line. ...
"[The] 'stimulus' bill is not change we can believe in. It's a return to big-government welfare that we will choke on."
Hello? GOPs? Your favorite wedge issue is coming back.
"Nothing wrong with helping states avoid anti-stimulating cuts in a recession. Nothing wrong with targeting money to the poorest, who are most likely to spend it quickly. But why use the aid specifically to encourage expansion of welfare? This isn't 'welfare' as only conservative Republicans would define it--i.e. any means-tested assistance. This is welfare as everyone would define it--cash assistance to able-bodied single mothers (or fathers) who may or may not be working, as in the old, despised AFDC program."
Then I'm asking what your plan for stimulating "private" business is?
If you say tax cuts, I say you're wrong in this situation because even though a business has extra cash on hand from a tax break doesn't mean that business would invest it into new jobs or more production in this state of economic upheavel and crisis.
Well, no I can't tell you for certain what business owners would do with a tax break. But I think I have a pretty good idea.
Do whatever it takes to make the business more profitable. Hiring more, introducing a new product, revamping an old one, doesn't matter. If the business is making more money (and that's what they want to do) the economy grows.
The democrats know that but growing private businesses does not fit their philosophy of taking care of you from "cradle to grave". Looking to the government for everything you need is where they want you to be. If you have to rely on them and not yourself they have your vote for life.
Deacon, this post is another example why I can't have civil political discussions with you. You'd rather blather around with partisan hack junk straight from Hannity and Rush Limbaugh and you don't care whether it's actually true or not.
I suspect you already know this, but ACORN is NOT mentioned anywhere in the stimulus plan. You and some of the right wing hacks have twisted the facts and you've taken the "for neighborhood stabilization activities related to emergency assistance for the redevelopment of abandoned and foreclosed homes as authorized under division B, title III of the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008.", portion of the bill and labeled it "ACORN". In fact it's not ACORN at all, but is dealing with the housing crisis.
Rush Limbaugh hasn't told the truth in years and that's why the guy is a laughing stock and complete joke. You'd be better served to form your own opinions and not listen to his drivel. You'd get more of the truth of what's actually going on.
You can have civil political discussions with me Mike. What you cant have is an answer with substance to my response to the ludicrous statement you made that the stimulus bill contains no pork. You, sir, are the Kool aid drinker here. As far as Rush being a joke, that would be Air America. Rush dominates the airwaves and Sean and Fox News dominates cable news. If I am wrong about ACORN I will stand corrected. I didnt hear that from Rush. I havent listened to him in over a week. I thought I read on Real Clear Politics. Whatever. Its a side issue. Obama and the Dems loaded the stimulus with pet projects and you know it. I notice you only single out the one point you think you can disprove and obfuscate the issue.
Obama has had a disasterous first month and if he had been a Republican the media would be crucifying him. Instead we get rave reviews about how cool and prolific he is. Like Hillary and Joe said in the primaries the Presidency is not a position that can afford on the job training. Obama has a ot to learn.
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When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
first of all, BHO can have sex with what ever he wants and dems will still vote for him. so that aint what would keep him from re-election.
more importantly, this isnt a stimulus plan, it is a massive SPENDING bill. Those are two very different things.
but one thing is for sure, BHO doesnt dissappoint. I said before the election that he was committed to repeating the mistakes of past presidents and I was right. Here we are in 1932 all over again and BHO is following the FDR plan for extended recession/depression. Big government spending will NOT get us out of this mess! It will just require the government to take more money out of the real economy to feed this beast.
The good news is, BHO will do more to Rehab the Republican party than any repbulican (Michael Steele included) could ever do!
now, everybody go stand by your mail box and wait for your gubbermint herion shot to show up. be a good citizen and get yourself hooked on it!
Good to talk to you again Bro. Ferd. I work with government contracts most of my day and know how badly some businesses need this stimulus. They are asking quite a few questions about this and what contracts might be available to them.
Aside from a tax cut, I don't expect any money to come directly to me from the government. However, working for the Government I do expect to see various programs funded to launch programs that will call on contractors, making jobs, and thereby stimulating the local economy. I can understand that you have philosophical differences about the plan. But seriously, what do you presume we should do?
Of the $816 billion in new spending and tax cuts, $264 (32) percent is a new means-tested welfare spending. This figures out to be $6,700 in new welfare spending for every poor person in this country.
Another $523 billion in the new welfare spending is being hidden by budgetary gimmicks. It enacted, the bill would total a 10-year extra welfare cost which is likely to be around $787 billion.
Congress' claim that it is a "temporary" increase in welfare spending for a Keynesian purpose is a red herring. They are simply wanting to expan the welfare state.
The first year of enactment will explode federal welfare spending up around 20 percent. That would be a rise from $491 in 2008 to $601 in 2009. The largest in US History. It's Obama's promise to spread the wealth.
In the first year, after the bill is enacted, and you count all the hidden spending that the total 10-year fiscal burden adds to the national debt it won't be $816 billion, it will be $1.34 trillion. That would be $17,400 for each household that pays income tax in the US.
One of the major new welfare programs in the bill is Obama's "Make Work Pay" - a refundable tax credit. It's a shift in policy - costing around $23 billion per year, the credit will provide up to $500 to low income adults that do not pay income tax. This is the first time the government will give cash to able-bodied adults without dependent children. These people have little apparent need for assistance, so really, this new credit represents "spreading the wealth" for its own sake.
This credit is not in the stimulus package for stimulus effect, but only an extension of Obama's campaign promise - spreading the wealth.
I believe I read that 12 cents on the dollar was actually going to programs that will stimulate the economy.
I'm leery of welfare schemes too... however, the majority of individuals receiving a tax credit are going to turn around and put it into their local economy, thereby providing stimulation; they're not going to invest it in overseas markets like the banks and massive corporations have been doing.
Note to those that think the government spending money on wonderful things like building roads and bridges....
FDR did it and it didn't work for 12 years. then all hell broke loose and we had to ramp up industrialization and we litterally fought our way out of the depression.
you dont build roads out of a recession. You stimulate business and businesses get us out of recessions.
good grief.
Ummmm... businesses build roads. Give them government contracts and they will hire employees to do the work, they will then pay the employees, the employees are then "employed" and get a paycheck. The paycheck then goes into their bank account. They then go shopping for food and necessities. When they buy things it stimulates retail and other industries depending on what they buy. These government contracts will stimulate business.
The government doesn't have magic elves that come out of the sewer that build bridges, roads, computer networks, telecommunications networks, etc., etc., etc., for us. It takes businesses to do that.
Then I'm asking what your plan for stimulating "private" business is?
If you say tax cuts, I say you're wrong in this situation because even though a business has extra cash on hand from a tax break doesn't mean that business would invest it into new jobs or more production in this state of economic upheavel and crisis.
Exactly. The majority of tax cuts would go to corporations that will invest it in overseas markets like they've been doing all along.
People do not like Rush, Hannity, Fox News, etc. because they speak the truth. No if, ands, or butts about it. Some can't handle the truth. I will admit they can be very cocky, but all I care about are the facts. Did you all hear what Obama said about Biden? That tells me that Obama and Biden put on the biggest show ever to get elected!!! They probably can't stand each other. What I can't handle is all of Obama's UH'S!!! It's been only a month and there's still 3 years and 11 months of Obama's Psychobabble. Lord have mercy!!!
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