Do you Believe that God is "PERFECTLY LOVING?

[JN Anderson]

Originally Posted by crakjak

The support for Universalism is pervasive, however it is in the background due to the traditional view that God is the creator and maintainer of a "hellhole" of endless torture. This view took hold during the dark ages as a means for Rome to manipulate and control the masses. Paul no where describes a place of endless punishment, don't you think that is strange since He was the apostle to the Gentiles?

Dodging. Red Herring. Please reply to my post.

[JN Anderson]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Neither do I, scripture tells us that nobody can come to God unless the Spirit draws (literally means "drag") one to Him. The natural man will in no way seek God, when someone comes to God, God has orchestrated the circumstance. We have free will ONLY with the perimeters of the path that has been set before us. Had you be born Hitler would you have handled your circumstances better than he?? Given the same circumstances you and I are potentially the "worse of sinners."

Surely you jest. Do you honestly believe that the person Adolph Hitler was the only person, in time, who has endured the same circumstances that he did?

"Helkúō is used by Jesus of the drawing of souls unto Him (Joh_6:44; Joh_12:32, to draw or induce to come). It is the drawing to a certain point as in Joh_21:6, Joh_21:11 indicating the drawing of the net while súrō (Joh_21:8) is merely dragging. To draw a sword (Joh_18:10). See Sept.: 2Sa_22:17; Psa_10:9; Jer_38:13." (1)

Originally Posted by crakjak

The Spirit calls or draws folks to enter into what Jesus has ALREADY completed, "while we were YET sinners Christ died for us."

At what point then would recommend God "complete" the plan of Redemption then? After the whole world has conceded to sin? Hello??

NOTES:

1. The Complete Word Study Dictionary © 1992 By AMG International, Inc. Chattanooga, TN 37422, U.S.A. Revised edition, 1993

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Sabellius

Surely you jest. Do you honestly believe that the person Adolph Hitler was the only person, in time, who has endured the same circumstances that he did?

"Helkúō is used by Jesus of the drawing of souls unto Him (Joh_6:44; Joh_12:32, to draw or induce to come). It is the drawing to a certain point as in Joh_21:6, Joh_21:11 indicating the drawing of the net while súrō (Joh_21:8) is merely dragging. To draw a sword (Joh_18:10). See Sept.: 2Sa_22:17; Psa_10:9; Jer_38:13." (1)



At what point then would recommend God "complete" the plan of Redemption then? After the whole world has conceded to sin? Hello??

NOTES:

1. The Complete Word Study Dictionary © 1992 By AMG International, Inc. Chattanooga, TN 37422, U.S.A. Revised edition, 1993

Hitler is simply the example for this discussion, of course he was not the only person to endure such circumstances. He may have been the only person to endure such and to also have the power to inflict the misery that he wrought.

If God "induces" someone to come who or what will hinder their coming. You may invoke "freewill", my point is, due to individual circumstances true freewill is impossible.

Finally, when will God complete redemption? Rev. 5.13 gives a hint.

"And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, 'To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!"

This seems to infer all humans, and they seem to be willingly giving glory to God, I will embrace this greater hope and the ultimate victory of Jesus Christ in His mission to "seek and to save that which is lost."