*SHOCK* Rick Warren 2 give Invocation@Inaugeration

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by jtork

It doesn't matter what he claims - you can't be a Christian and believe in abortion - PERIOD.

hahahaha

*raises hand* No secret crushes on Obama here. He just happens to be one of the most important figures in the world, so people tend to talk about him - good, bad or otherwise.

[OldTimey]

Do you mean believe or agree with?

I am opposed to abortion, but I think it's here and that the traditional "pro-life" ideal of overturning Roe vs. Wade is not realistic.

Justice John Roberts said, "Roe v. Wade is the settled law of the
land. It is not--it's a little more than settled. It was
reaffirmed in the face of a challenge that it should be
overruled in the Casey decision. Accordingly, it's the settled
law of the land. There's nothing in my personal views that
would prevent me from fully and faithfully applying that
precedent, as well as Casey."
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...d=f:92548.wais

There are newborns thrown in trash cans and dumpsters all the time. So, outlawing the procedure isn't the answer.

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by OldTimey

Do you mean believe or agree with?

I am opposed to abortion, but I think it's here and that the traditional "pro-life" ideal of overturning Roe vs. Wade is not realistic.

Justice John Roberts said, "Roe v. Wade is the settled law of the
land. It is not--it's a little more than settled. It was
reaffirmed in the face of a challenge that it should be
overruled in the Casey decision. Accordingly, it's the settled
law of the land. There's nothing in my personal views that
would prevent me from fully and faithfully applying that
precedent, as well as Casey."
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...d=f:92548.wais

There are newborns thrown in trash cans and dumpsters all the time. So, outlawing the procedure isn't the answer.

If the murder rate goes up, that doesn't justify making murder legal.

If you feel Roe v. Wade will never be overturned, that's all good and fair. I'm not too optimistic about it either. That doesn't, however, mean I have to change my views on abortion.

[jtork]

Originally Posted by OldTimey

Do you mean believe or agree with?

I am opposed to abortion, but I think it's here and that the traditional "pro-life" ideal of overturning Roe vs. Wade is not realistic.

Justice John Roberts said, "Roe v. Wade is the settled law of the
land. It is not--it's a little more than settled. It was
reaffirmed in the face of a challenge that it should be
overruled in the Casey decision. Accordingly, it's the settled
law of the land. There's nothing in my personal views that
would prevent me from fully and faithfully applying that
precedent, as well as Casey."
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...d=f:92548.wais

There are newborns thrown in trash cans and dumpsters all the time. So, outlawing the procedure isn't the answer.

I mean believe that abortion is OK or agree that abortion is ok - I am quite sure you are the only one that did not get what I was meaning.

[OldTimey]

I, for one, don't want you to change. I'm sure we are both aganst abortion, but the abortion rate went down under Clinton.
Social programs and sex-ed.(not the abstinence only kind) do make a difference.
We have to address the root of the problem in multiple ways for a diverse people.

I doubt abortion is ever an easy decision for anyone to make. Let's make it so that that decision isn't arrived at as often.
Let's, then, do everything we can to help these women, mostly poor minorities, make the right choice.

Another thought: How many abortions are caused by the shame that's placed on unwed mother's by their families' belief system or their places of worship?

[StMark]

Originally Posted by jtork

It doesn't matter what he claims - you can't be a Christian and believe in abortion - PERIOD.

Now there's a thought

[Innocuous]

OT is such an ultra-con. Sigh.

[OldTimey]

Originally Posted by jtork

I mean believe that abortion is OK or agree that abortion is ok - I am quite sure you are the only one that did not get what I was meaning.

I know, but too many "believers" use the word "believe" when they really mean agree.
I believe in Santa is different than I agree with Santa.

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by OldTimey

I, for one, don't want you to change. I'm sure we are both aganst abortion, but the abortion rate went down under Clinton.
Social programs and sex-ed.(not the abstinence only kind) do make a difference.
We have to address the root of the problem in multiple ways for a diverse people.

I doubt abortion is ever an easy decision for anyone to make. Let's make it so that that decision isn't arrived at as often.
Let's, then, do everything we can to help these women, mostly poor minorities, make the right choice.

Another thought: How many abortions are caused by the shame that's placed on unwed mother's by their families' belief system or their places of worship?

Nothing wrong with being a hardcore liberal, with exception of some of its thought processes. The history of abortion is more telling of groups like Planned Parenthood's beginnings of how they sought out to kill poor people, minorities and mentaly disabled for the sake of eugenics. So because the rate you claim is lower under Clinton, you somehow put that all together to prove your point that laws against abortion help the abortion rate? Wow. Pretty absurd. Original though, if that's what you were going for. Actually scratch that, nothing original here. Recycled.

Your last quote: are you really serious? Did you know that shame isn't a bad thing?? Hard to believe in our world, huh? Shame is a good thing if it pushes us in the right direction and doesn't condemn us. Shame itself is a great thing. Just like when your hand hurts after touching a hot stove.

Great to have Michael Moore on the show though. Have a good day.

[OldTimey]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

. Shame itself is a great thing.

Well, then, may your life be filled with it.