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10-27-2008, 09:29 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Posts: 1,023
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Re: Liturgical Worship - Do you like it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipas
The book of Revelation follows the pattern of a Heavenly liturgy....complete with sensors and incense.  |
A liturgy is a form of ritual. We don't see what the apostles did in Acts and the epistles as being liturgical. When we get to the time spoken of in Revelation, GOD will orchestrate worship as HE desires, but for this current time where the Church is GOD's plan, we see no liturgy.
-Bro. Alex
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10-27-2008, 10:11 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Liturgical Worship - Do you like it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipas
The book of Revelation follows the pattern of a Heavenly liturgy....complete with sensors and incense. |
This is symbolism.  Incense is prayers, etc. We do not carry through symbols, but the actualities. It's not an actual view of how angels worship.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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10-27-2008, 10:12 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Liturgical Worship - Do you like it?
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Originally Posted by Sherri
I'm not a fan of liturgical worship, but I do believe that God is present in those services if people are seeking Him with a sincere heart. I know some people who actually feel God more in that setting than in a typical Pentecostal service.
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I agree. God is drawn to any sincere God-seeking soul, regardless of surroundings. But that does not mean God endorses those surroundings.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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10-27-2008, 10:12 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,052
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Re: Liturgical Worship - Do you like it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen
A liturgy is a form of ritual. We don't see what the apostles did in Acts and the epistles as being liturgical. When we get to the time spoken of in Revelation, GOD will orchestrate worship as HE desires, but for this current time where the Church is GOD's plan, we see no liturgy.
-Bro. Alex
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Bro. Alex....John was caught up into Heaven and witnessed the Revelation unfolding before him. The symbolic visions depicted future events...but the activities of Heaven were taking place real time before him.
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10-27-2008, 10:13 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Liturgical Worship - Do you like it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipas
Bro. Alex....John was caught up into Heaven and witnessed the Revelation unfolding before him. The symbols depicted future events...but the activities of Heaven were taking place real time before him.
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Like an actual lamb with seven actual eyes and seven actual horns? That represented atonement with the high priest. The visions were not actualities in and of themselves, though.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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10-27-2008, 10:14 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,052
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Re: Liturgical Worship - Do you like it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen
A liturgy is a form of ritual. We don't see what the apostles did in Acts and the epistles as being liturgical. When we get to the time spoken of in Revelation, GOD will orchestrate worship as HE desires, but for this current time where the Church is GOD's plan, we see no liturgy.
-Bro. Alex
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It might also prove valuable to understand the worship services of the Temple and synagogues.
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10-27-2008, 10:14 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,052
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Re: Liturgical Worship - Do you like it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
This is symbolism. Incense is prayers, etc. We do not carry through symbols, but the actualities. It's not an actual view of how angels worship. |
Prove it.
If John saw angels bowing down and pouring out incense....that's what John saw.
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10-27-2008, 10:16 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,052
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Re: Liturgical Worship - Do you like it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Like an actual lamb with seven actual eyes and seven actual horns? That represented atonement with the high priest. The visions were not actualities in and of themselves, though.
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No silly. lol John literally saw Jesus, the eyes and horns are symbolic. But nevertheless...John saw Jesus. Are you saying that he didn't?
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10-27-2008, 10:19 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
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Re: Liturgical Worship - Do you like it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipas
No silly. lol John literally saw Jesus, the eyes and horns are symbolic. But nevertheless...John saw Jesus. Are you saying that he didn't?
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Anything symbolic represents a physical actuality. So if John actually saw in the vision a lamb that represents Jesus, then what He actually saw was only symbolic. He did not see Jesus as a man with brown hair and brown eyes about 5'6". He saw a lamb. So whatever He saw in the rest of the visions, by the same token, was not actually occurring in Heaven, but symbolized what actually occurred. That means we cannot take anything from Revelation and say those sightings actually occurred in Heaven as John saw them.
I already noted that incense was said in Revelation to represent prayers. So when John saw incense in the vision, He did not see what actually occurred. INcense does not exist in Heaven. What actually occurred was prayers rising to God that cannot be physically seen.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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10-27-2008, 10:24 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Liturgical Worship - Do you like it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipas
Prove it.
If John saw angels bowing down and pouring out incense....that's what John saw. |
Right. What he SAW was only symbolic, though.
He also saw a Lamb with 7 eyes and horns. But you know that is not what Jesus ACTUALLY looks like.
Notice the placement of the term ACTUALLY in my point here: John ACTUALLY saw a lamb, but what was ACTUALLY in Heaven was not a lamb. It was Jesus.
But what he saw was SYMBOLIC, like the Lamb. What actually occurred is not what John saw. He saw a symbol of what actually occurred.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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