I think it's hard to know what is really going on unless you are in the thick of it. That's what we pay these people to do. So, do I want a man who wants botched abortion babies left to die? No. That tells me a story and settles it.
oh why not. dogpile.....
Obama on these babies that have been aborted but born alive.
Codifying protections for them would "violated the sanctity of Roe"
That is a direct quote.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Israel has tried again and again to make peace with the Palestinians, even going to the point that Ehud Barak was going to give Arafat 98% of the land he wanted back in 2000. Instead, Arafat denied peace and the latest intifada began. Blaming Israel and the US for the plight of the Palestinians is evidence that you are listening to the liberal voices in politics today who are always on the wrong side of history. The FACTS of the Mid-East conflict point to one source of failure: the Arabs.
Wrong. The Palestinians don't want peace....they want their land back. There will be no peace without land. It would be like the UN taking your land and giving it to a Native American. You wouldn't want "peace", you'd want back what was yours. And the source of the failure isn't the Arabs (they're a side player in this drama by the way, I hope you're not confusing Arabs and Palestinians because that would make you look real uninformed)....the failure isn't the Arabs, it's the UN effort to partition a land and a people while expecting them to just smile and go along with it. The failure is with the UN's efforts to carve a nation out of Palestine at the request of radical Zionists.
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You give the hypothetical of the Palestinain shop owner losing his store. Its hypothetical. We know for a fact that thousands of Jews have been slaughtered by Palestinian terrorists over the years. Innocent people going to work, going to school, going to the market, eating at a restaurant, attending a wedding. THEY TEACH THEIR CHILDREN TO HATE AND TO MURDER FROM THE EARLIEST OF YEARS.
I think you're putting the chicken before the egg. Our "hypothetical" shop keeper represents untold numbers of stories of Palestinians who lost all they had as a result of the UN's partition of their land and the Zionist authorities heavy handed tactics. They resorted to terrorism as a response to this injustice. Remember, "terrorism" is a poor man's warfare. Had the UN not partitioned their land and gave Israel permission to bulldoze entire sections of what was Palestinian land for generations, the Palestinians wouldn't have resorted to terrorism....because they would have no reason to.
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Are there innocent Palestinians caught in the crossfire? Sure. But the injustices laid upon them are the result of corrupt leaders, radical Muslim theology, Arab brothers from other nations that DO NOT WANT THESE PEOPLE. Israel has been better to them than any nation in the Middle East. Israel has made concession after concession to find peace, and what do they get for it? More terrorism, more demands, more death, more broken promises.
Israel has been forced to make concessions...and think about it...the UN dropped them into hostile territory and took land from the Palestinians. If Israel wants to survive she's going to have to make concessions...but here's the reality of the situation. The Palestinians don't want concessions....they want Palestine back. Just like you'd want your home back if the UN took it from you and gave it to Native Americans.
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The Palestinain authorities, religious leaders and political groups all live by the credo that Israel must be destroyed and cease to exist.
Sadly, it has progressed to this point. But it didn't begin with the Palestinians....it began with the UN's hair brained idea of partitioning Palestine and giving the land over at the Zionist's request.
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I'm sorry, but this pity party for the Palestinian people is pathetic. We should feel sorry for the innocent men, women and children, but they are unfortunately the ones who are suffering because of THEIR LEADERS, THEIR BROTHERS, and THEIR RELIGION.
This isn't a pity party....it's an exercise in truth telling. If the UN took your home and your church and your business and gave the land over to the Native Americans I doubt you'd think this was all one big pity party.
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Has Israel done everything perfectly? No. But their failures pale in comparison to the colossal and gargantuan failures of the Palestinians.
We agree here. The Palestinians were definitely not capable of handling this problem politically. But think about it....what if the whole world voted that America had to give large sections of land back to the Native Americans. I'm sure that some very radical groups with arise and bombings would begin.
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As far as your accusation of blind theology: If modern Israel is not Biblical Israel what is it? If the establishment of modern Israel is not a fulfillment of God's promise to make them a nation again then what is it? If God's promise to Abraham that He would bless those that blessed him and cursed those that cursed him doesn't still apply Abraham and the Jews, why?
Show me chapter and verse of God's re-establishment of Israel. I assure you that it doesn't describe what we see over their today.
God's promise to Abraham that He would bless those that blessed him and curse those who curse him is rooted in God's plan to use his seed (the Messiah) to save the world....not in some Israeli nationalist garbage.
Think about it Einstein... the UN partitioned Palestine. The Palestinians didn't choose to have their land partitioned. Also the Jews had long been at odds with the Palestinians and had made exclusive claim to the land of Palestine long before the 1948 partition. In a 15 July 1937 editorial, David Ben Gurion implied that partition could never be an acceptable long-term solution: 'The Jewish people have always regarded, and will continue to regard Palestine as a whole, as a single country which is theirs in a national sense and will become theirs once again. No Jew will accept partition as a just and rightful solution.' During the Zionist Congress, Ben Gurion supported the proposal to partition Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state. At the same time, he delivered speeches which made it clear that he did not accept partition as a final solution: 'If I had been faced with the question: a Jewish state in the west of the land of Israel in return for giving up on our historical right to the entire land of Israel I would have postponed the establishment of the state. No Jew is entitled to give up the right of the Jewish nation to the land. It is not in the authority of any Jew or of any Jewish body; it is not even in the authority of the entire nation alive today to give up any part of the land'... ...'this is a standing right under all conditions. Even if, at any point, the Jews choose to decline it, they have no right to deprive future generations of it. Our right to the entire land exists and stands for ever.'
Frankly, I think it's fair to question if the United Nations had the Zionists best interest at heart by partitioning the land and creating this mess. I'm sure it sounded like a good idea at the time, especially in the wake of the Holocaust....but taking land from people that they've had for generations, giving it to a Jewish state, and then mandating that everyone just play nice is a recipe for disaster.
Let's compare it to the following hypothetical....
Imagine with me that the UN decides to partition the United States. They draw a line across every state, dividing each state nearly in half. Then they declare that all land South of the dividing line in each state belongs to the the indigenous native American peoples. Suddenly Native Americans begin moving in and employ bull dozers to raze buildings so that they can build settlements. And let's imaging that you lived South of one of those lines and watched as your home, your family's business, and every memory of the life you know is completely destroyed and given to a Native American Indian. Now....you can't believe for one moment that if I told you to play nice and get a long that you would. Honey, it would be on and you know it. We'd be bombing them, calling on regional allies to assist us, etc. Just like the Palestinian people are doing.
The issue is that there is an acceptable hatred and racism against Palestinians in spite of the fact that the United Nations partitioned their land and handed land over to a people who were largely already settled in Europe for centuries.
I have heard stuff like this before. But, as you said, in teh wake of the holocaust the Jews did need a place to call home. It seems they could have found a better way. But both sides seem completley unwilling to give up "their" land. Is it true that Israel was willing to give 98% back to the Palestinians and they said no? Was this based on the temple mount? What were the circumstances?
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
I have heard stuff like this before. But, as you said, in teh wake of the holocaust the Jews did need a place to call home. It seems they could have found a better way. But both sides seem completley unwilling to give up "their" land. Is it true that Israel was willing to give 98% back to the Palestinians and they said no? Was this based on the temple mount? What were the citcumstances?
AMEN.
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DAVID A MAN AFTER GOD'S HEART.........
BTW Antipas, our policy of loyalty to Israel is not based on blind radical theology. Its based on the fact that they have been the only ONE TRUE DEMOCRACY in the Middle East. They turned that area into an economic success story. They lead that area in computer technology, agriculture, they have the best quality of life because they live in freedom and liberty there. In case you missed it, that is an ideal that America has been embracing for a few hundred years now. So your accusation about radical theology is really non sequitur.
You and I agree that Israel has advanced far beyond her neighbors, largely with our help, but also because of her freedom and liberty (much of which isn't offered to Palestinians however).
But here's an issue I have. It's not America's job to police the world and free the masses. That's THEIR responsibility. Consider a quote from John Quincy Adams....
"America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own."
Stew, I would say we should ignor Jesse on this if it werent for some very interesting things that parallel.
Frist, Obama made comments about Jerusalem being the capital of Israel to a Jewish group then shortly afterwards when talking to a muslim delegation bascially told them not to worry about that.
Obama has a very long and close relationship with Rasheed Khalidi an American who is ethinically palistinian and is a professor at Columbia University.
He has written a number of books on Palistine and among his comments are things like calling Palisinitan suicide bombers patriots.
Obama has publically thanked him for helping him understand the palistininan issue.
Third, the American Social Justice movement which Barak Obama has long been a part, has taken up the Palistinian cause against Israel.
given those facts (and those are actual real facts) It seems to me that Jesse Jackson is speaking with some authority here.
One man's terrorist is another man's patriot. If the Boston Tea Party took place today, Britain would take a stand against acts of colonial terrorism.
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