The Year General Conference Heard the "s" word

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

You are welcome... and again, the word was not acceptable when used to swear etc., but in it's descriptive context it was acceptable like God, hell, and other words.

We still have leftover remnants of the Victorian era......

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

This is a total fabrication, this was never the case with Bro. Creel.

That is why I asked what I did. To find out if what I heard was right or not.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yes, I understood it as just exactly that. However, wisdom would prod us to do different.

Agreed. Realize I was raised in a subculture, quite removed from American mainstream.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

We still have leftover remnants of the Victorian era......

Right. Please see my last post.

[tv1a]

The fastest growing church in America means what happens to the waist line after indoctrination.

Originally Posted by timlan2057

Well, I'm not sure and I don't want to get off the point - which was in what context the "s" word is said.

This was the conference right before the 1984 election - Reagan-Bush and Mondale-Ferraro.

Creel called the Democrats the "party of the devil" or some such - of course you would have loved that, Ferd.

And then he hollered "And I ain't votin' for no WOMAN to be vice president!!"

Hmmm .... wonder how he would have felt about Sarah Palin?

So maybe the thrust of Wilkerson being there was it seems the United Pentecostal Church does find ways of showing its ignorance on a national stage and then wonders why people haven't been blowing the doors down the last 25 years and why this "fastest growing church in the world" business is nothing but laughable fiction.

But I digressed from the subject of the thread.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by tv1a

The fastest growing church in America means what happens to the waist line after indoctrination.

That wasn't really needed here.

The UPCI is a fast growing church... it's just that some statisticians forget to subtract the numbers that bleed through the back door...

It is quite noteworthy that a large number of denominations are actually shrinking today. I think the UPC, while not being near the top, is holding their own and expanding as well.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Agreed. Realize I was raised in a subculture, quite removed from American mainstream.

Oh, I know. I was not inferring you were unwise. Just those who loosely use the term.

[tv1a]

Who replaced Teklemarian's group? Hundreds of thousands of constituents were excommunicated in one swoop. Didn't that wipe out a third of the constituency?

It takes creative fannie mae and freddie mac accounting to state the upci is the fastest growing church. I think they went to Gary Reckert's school of counting. The upci won't tell anyone which churches are contributing to this awesome figure. I know one non upci church in Ohio with more members in their congregatin than every upci church combined.

According to upci statistics the average upci church has 50-80 members. According to my calculations, there's aren't enough churches to substantiate that claim.

The only way the upci can substantiate that claim is to count foreign missions.

Knowing the upci's history of revisionism, I would love to see independent verification of their numbers.

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

That wasn't really needed here.

The UPCI is a fast growing church... it's just that some statisticians forget to subtract the numbers that bleed through the back door...

It is quite noteworthy that a large number of denominations are actually shrinking today. I think the UPC, while not being near the top, is holding their own and expanding as well.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Who replaced Teklemarian's group? Hundreds of thousands of constituents were excommunicated in one swoop. Didn't that wipe out a third of the constituency?

It takes creative fannie mae and freddie mac accounting to state the upci is the fastest growing church. I think they went to Gary Reckert's school of counting. The upci won't tell anyone which churches are contributing to this awesome figure. I know one non upci church in Ohio with more members in their congregatin than every upci church combined.

According to upci statistics the average upci church has 50-80 members. According to my calculations, there's aren't enough churches to substantiate that claim.

The only way the upci can substantiate that claim is to count foreign missions.

Knowing the upci's history of revisionism, I would love to see independent verification of their numbers.

While Teke may be technically "out" it should be noted (if I understand correctly) many foreign works are separate entities - including some that would be considered in "good standing".


Please state the UPCI stats you reference.

To really delve into this one must fully define;

1. members

2. constituents

3. attendance

4. sympathizers

All of the above have been variantly defined and used by some organizations to determine their numbers.

For example, if the "independent verification" used the standard adopted by the COGIC the UPC numbers are likely way low.

[tv1a]

It is the upci responsibility to define the parameters. Does the fastest growing organization include numbers from other organizatioins they raided? ie. Barberton Ohio and Jackson, Ohio come to mind. Being an observant person, I don't see upci claims holding water. Their math to me looks like "a" plue "y' equals "elephant".

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

While Teke may be technically "out" it should be noted (if I understand correctly) many foreign works are separate entities - including some that would be considered in "good standing".


Please state the UPCI stats you reference.

To really delve into this one must fully define;

1. members

2. constituents

3. attendance

4. sympathizers

All of the above have been variantly defined and used by some organizations to determine their numbers.

For example, if the "independent verification" used the standard adopted by the COGIC the UPC numbers are likely way low.