Tithe-vs-Paying Your Bills

[SRM]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Bro. I would definetly pay the electric bill first - even if they were not cutting it off. Personally I only make contribution to the church about 10 times a year. This is in part due to the fact my own salary is not exactly a weekly one.

If someone finds they cannot make significant contributions to others including, the place where believers assemble, they should re-evaluate their lifestyle (something I have done before myself).

There are other ways than money to contribute by the way. I give to several worthy causes financially, but also give several hundred hours in community service each year.

Jesus did say to GIVE...we assume He meant money

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I see an important issue here.

Since tithing isn't a binding commandment in the NT church, paying tithes first is elevating it to the point of "law". This departs from "Grace".

Also, as believers we are told that if we do not provide for own own families, we're worse than infidels. You have to provide food, clothing, shelter, transportation, etc. in this day and age. If you do not provide these things for the sake of giving an unbiblical 10% to the church, you're failing to meet a NT responsibility. I remember being told that if I didn't tithe I'd be cursed. We'd tithe and not have enough money for groceries. So we'd borrow money for groceries from her mom. I used to praise God and give him credit for her assistance. Today I realize, I failed in my duty to provide for my family and burdened another to give to a bloated and wealthy pastorate. Needless to say, her mother never visited our church.

That leads to the final point I can think of. If we tithe and don't pay our bills what witness is that to our creditors? What witness is that to the world at large when we seek assistance because we gave to a religious institution?

If it's sincerely your desire to give to that point, and your family agrees to the sacrificial giving, burdening another to meet your needs is out of the question. In addition, if you're giving because your church requires you... it's extortion. Like the Pharisees of old, they are robbing the poor and the widow.

Aquila

This is something I don't think I've seen. And that is the history of where tithes 10% became the recognized offering to support the pastor/ministry in the local church.

Correct me if I am wrong, but from the way I see things in history the RCC used money to pay for forgiveness of sins when they went to confession. I cant remember the term. Anyway this was a way the old preist in idol temples would support themselves by having the people bring sacrifices to thier gods. In old testemant times the taberncle priest did not recieve 10% as I understand. But they did take certain parts of the sacrifice as thier own.

If I understand things church buildings were not part of the early church either until later after Constitine made christianity the religion of Rome. I may be oversimplifing things. But sometimes I think it is better to simplify to better see things. In the early times of our country preachers did not get paid a salary. The community met in homes till such a time as they gave together to build a building, which most times served as community center and school house. The preacher was not a paid fixture. He either went from community to community or he had his own farm to tend sometimes both. There was no such thing as a full time preacher unless one was RCC. And even then they many times held down a job to support themselves.

So what I am seeing at least from my point of view is that this 10% tithe is a fairly new thing developed to support churches. Which I might add I question as to whether this is what God intended.

We have gotten to the point of thinking that the building is the church. We are the church. The building is nothing. We count attendance, maybe we need to learn a lesson from OT times, God commanded them not to count the men of war. We have our programs, outreaches, social clubs. All for what to bring more into the number.

We have made the intrance into the kingdom of God a path of works, why? So we have a way to count the prostelyt and say he is saved. Then we can toot our horn and say look at what I have done for God. I have built this large church with all these people, with this great choir, and Sunday school ministry, and social clubs etc. God does not get the glory for this we do. It is our work not Gods work.

Sorry I just got carried away with myself here

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by SRM

Jesus did say to GIVE...we assume He meant money

One need not assume he meant only money. In the NT people gave their homes, their talents, their time to help the various works of ministry.

[MissBrattified]

I've never been in a position where 10% of my income would cover all my bills, so therefore it still seems reasonable to tithe, even in tight situations. (Which we have been in numerous times.)

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

This is something that I was thinking about the other day. On AFF, we talk about not tithing if that is sin or not. There is a lot of talk on her whether tithe is a 'candy stick' that preachers use inorder to line their own pockets or carpet their houses. The thought I was pondering the other day is this-would God rather you not pay your debts (bad stewardship) so you can make your tithe payment?

I know that God wants us to be good stewards with our time and money. Often times nowadays with the housing issues, credit crunches, high energy costs and job cuts it becomes very, very tough. I have not experienced this issues a whole lot in my life. But I wonder what God would rather have from us the tithe or us to pay our debt?

What do you think?

I KNOW that if you are faithful in paying your tithes, you will never go hungry or have need of money to pay your bills.

The bible says if you are faithful in a few things, God will make you ruler over many. (this of course isn't just our money but many things)

We can say tithing isn't required, etc. all we would like; but the fact still remains GOD honors and blesses tithe givers, despite what denomination they are in.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Aquila



Correct me if I am wrong, but from the way I see things in history the RCC used money to pay for forgiveness of sins when they went to confession. I cant remember the term.

Sorry I just got carried away with myself here

Indulgences

[Digging4Truth]

On the issue of tithe paying versus bill paying. This would tend to come into play for widows etc. According to today's "tithe" that is taught a widow would still have to pay a tenth of her little SS check when, in reality, she should be a beneficiary of the tithe.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

On the issue of tithe paying versus bill paying. This would tend to come into play for widows etc. According to today's "tithe" that is taught a widow would still have to pay a tenth of her little SS check when, in reality, she should be a beneficiary of the tithe.

There are qualifications to being a widow indeed and Paul actually compels the family to take care of their widows first that the church be not charged unless they are widows indeed.

28.1 Timothy 5:16
If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.


I Timothy 5:5 Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day.

However if a widow has not family, this is where the church does seem to fall short with help, but not all churches of course.

[TGBTG]

1 Corinthians 9
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

From this scripture, I see Paul applying the principle of tithing in the old testament to the new testament. However, Paul himself states emphatically that although he has the power to live off the corinthians (For the Lord ordained it), he refused to use the privilege given him.

What do y'all think (especially of Verses 13 and 14) ?

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

1 Corinthians 9
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

From this scripture, I see Paul applying the principle of tithing in the old testament to the new testament. However, Paul himself states emphatically that although he has the power to live off the corinthians (For the Lord ordained it), he refused to use the privilege given him.

What do y'all think (especially of Verses 13 and 14) ?

That a minister is alright with living off the tithing and that is it not wrong to do so.