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07-09-2008, 05:41 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Uh Oh, I See A Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzyde
That is a fantastic report!!
Is your church being assisted by any other church? I only ask because I know what a monumental task it is to start up a new work! And, from what I hear, Vancouver can be pretty pricey in property values.
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No, just the HMD of UPC of BC.
It is really pricey!
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07-09-2008, 06:17 PM
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Matthew 7:6
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,768
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Re: Uh Oh, I See A Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron
A system where 42 million Americans have no health care?
Ahh, yeah right thanks.
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Well, I'm not trying to turn this into a long drawn-out debate on health care, but...
1... not having health insurance is not the same as not having health care.
2... Check the facts: There is not a big difference between the life expectancy rates in Canada vs the US.
__________________
http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
 I'm T France, and I approved this message.
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07-09-2008, 06:29 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,396
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Re: Uh Oh, I See A Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFrance
Well, I'm not trying to turn this into a long drawn-out debate on health care, but...
1... not having health insurance is not the same as not having health care.
2... Check the facts: There is not a big difference between the life expectancy rates in Canada vs the US.
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Life Expectancy in the US falls to 42nd place.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007....ewenmacaskill
Life Expectancy in Canada 2nd Highest in the world!
http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/indicator.js...&indicatorid=3
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07-09-2008, 06:33 PM
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Posts: 16,840
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Re: Uh Oh, I See A Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron
No offense taken, but I think your analysis is wrong.
There is a shortage of medical personal worldwide even in the US!
The Mrs said they even have shortage of personal in Oregon.
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No shortage of medical personnel keeps Americans from having needed surgery. That is a fact.
I could have just about any kind of surgery from cardio to neuro and everything in between in a matter of a few days and if an emergency a few hours.
For all of the denigration of the United States health care system it is still the best in the world.
All nationaized medicene is going to do is create a market for insurance like I saw being sold in England where you can buy insurance to pay for surgery like yours when the national health care system won't get to it for ages.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-09-2008, 06:35 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,396
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Re: Uh Oh, I See A Problem
Something is wrong with this picture!
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07-09-2008, 06:39 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,396
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Re: Uh Oh, I See A Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
No shortage of medical personnel keeps Americans from having needed surgery. That is a fact.
I could have just about any kind of surgery from cardio to neuro and everything in between in a matter of a few days and if an emergency a few hours.
For all of the denigration of the United States health care system it is still the best in the world.
All nationaized medicene is going to do is create a market for insurance like I saw being sold in England where you can buy insurance to pay for surgery like yours when the national health care system won't get to it for ages.
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I don't think so CC1!
I know of personally where family members of Canadians are routinely refused tests & care by HMO'S & where pre existing conditions are either not covered,
or are very limited in scope.
I also know of cases where there are waits!
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07-09-2008, 06:45 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: Uh Oh, I See A Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron
I don't think so CC1!
I know of personally where family members of Canadians are routinely refused tests & care by HMO'S & where pre existing conditions are either not covered,
or are very limited in scope.
I also know of cases where there are waits!
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I challenge you to show me where someone here has had to wait like you have for surgery that is not elective.
Any medical procedure critical enough that it would keep a person from working would be done.
I was at the emergency room within the past month and was examined and had a cat scan BEFORE they even asked me if I had insurance.
When I was leaving and giving them my insurance info I read a placard that stated how they would not refuse care and the various methods for people without insurance to get their bills handled.
Our health system has many problems, mostly inflation many times the percentage of other items, but I absolutely would not trade it for second rate care where you can't even get neccessary surgery or in the case of some pregnant women who require special care you have to send them to a neighboring country for care.
Everybody is covered under your plan but the overall level of care is decreased also.
Add to that the less homogenous (read that minorities and poor people with poor health habits)population we have and the USA will be bankrupted if health care is socialized.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-09-2008, 06:52 PM
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Matthew 7:6
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,768
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Re: Uh Oh, I See A Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron
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Well, I'm happy for Canada.
But the difference in life expectancy between the US and Canada is about 3 years... not as big a difference as some people might think.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2102rank.html
Canada doesn't have a higher life expectancy simply because they have a government controlled health system. And numbers don't always tell the whole story....
America has a significantly higher homicide rate, a higher suicide rate, and a higher rate of auto accidents than Canada does. Obviously these things factor into the overall life expectancy rate.
And Americans' lifestyle choices cause Americans to have a significantly higher rate of obesity than Canada. America's obesity problem is not because of a lack of a national heath care system.
Thus, the 3 year difference in life expectancy numbers has a lot of factors that contribute to it. When people claim that the difference is simply because of national health care, they either don't know the facts, or they're just being intentionally misleading.
__________________
http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
I'm T France, and I approved this message.
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07-09-2008, 06:54 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: Uh Oh, I See A Problem
Ron,
To my point about how it is easier for Canada to provide health care to a homogenous populatoin that is relatively healthy Canada had, in 2004, only an estimated minority populaton of 4 million people out of 32 million total.
America has signficant Black and Hispanic populatons with poor eating habits that cause increased medical problems. I don't feel like paying for somebody elses bad haibts. They can get a job and inusurance just like I did.
By the way in looking for the Canadian demographic info I stumbled across some disturbing religous demographic info.
In 1991 1.6% of Canadians identified themselves as Pentecostal but 10 years later in 2001 only 1.2% did. Yikes! A 15.3% drop. Whats the scoop?
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-09-2008, 06:55 PM
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Matthew 7:6
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,768
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Re: Uh Oh, I See A Problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
For all of the denigration of the United States health care system it is still the best in the world.
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Thank you. I have no need to bash any other countries, but I'll point this out...People still leave countries all over the world (including countries where they don't want to wait for their free government surgery) and come here to have medical procedures done in US hospitals.
__________________
http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
I'm T France, and I approved this message.
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