8 miles of truckers

[Rico]

I just heard on the news that a nationwide shutdown is planned for May 5th., as a follow up to today's protest. If the truckers in this country can get organized, they have the power to shut this country down. Something like 70%-80% of our goods are delivered by truck.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Rico

It wouldn't be a tax hike? You can't be serious. Saying it wouldn't be a tax hike is like trying to say the tax cuts weren't really tax cuts.

When I'm paying a greater percentage of my paycheck than they do their income...I don't care what you call it...get them to pay their fair share. Being rich doesn't make you exempt of doing your civic duty and carrying your own weight.

[ChristopherHall]

Drilling in Alaska and in other areas may provide temporary relief…but it would be short lived. We would still get the majority of our oil from overseas. Also the oil in America is a different type of crude that would require additional processing which would add to the cost to produce it. Not to mention the refineries that would need to be built would have to be built according to modern standards and specifications both structural and environmental and that would add considerable cost. I’d support building a modern, clean, refinery in Alaska or off the coast….but the oil companies are pushing to get out of even doing that. They need to build clean and green.

After all is said and done we wouldn’t save that much money. We need to move to a new type or source of fuel entirely…or learn to live with this like Europe has. This past weekend I bought a bike, a nice 21 speed. That’s transportation to work and errands. The way I see it, it will be better for my health and my wallet. Americans are too fat and lazy to realize that they need to minimize the “footprint” of their lifestyles. Buy a bike; grow a garden for your vegetables, work close to home, don’t drive 30 miles to the mall so often. Don’t eat out so often, stay and cook at home…like a family. Simplify and survive.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

The American people don't mind paying taxes if they feel they're seeing results. For example, I don't mind paying taxes to sustain a police or fire department. I don't mind paying taxes to support the maintenance of roads and highways. It's about results. The founders waged a war over taxes that did little but bring windfall profits to the British Empire, the benefits of which they would never see.

The Democrats aren't planning on raising my taxes...I'm middle class and already pay MORE than my fair share.

police? I am for it (local taxes only)!
department of defence? I am for it!
fixing my roads? I am for it!

corn ethinol subsidies? NO
forcing me to use mercury filled florescent light bulbs? NO
driving up the cost of everything I buy because of stupid taxes on businesses? NONONO!

i can go on for days...

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Rico

I just heard on the news that a nationwide shutdown is planned for May 5th., as a follow up to today's protest. If the truckers in this country can get organized, they have the power to shut this country down. Something like 70%-80% of our goods are delivered by truck.

Good. Unions in Europe will shut down an entire country. It's called solidarity.

The new "Kings" are CEO's and multinational billion dollar corporations that keep us enslaved as wage slaves in their massive global plantation. We need a revolution, and the truckers might be our heroes.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Drilling in Alaska and in other areas may provide temporary relief…but it would be short lived. We would still get the majority of our oil from overseas. Also the oil in America is a different type of crude that would require additional processing which would add to the cost to produce it. Not to mention the refineries that would need to be built would have to be built according to modern standards and specifications both structural and environmental and that would add considerable cost. I’d support building a modern, clean, refinery in Alaska or off the coast….but the oil companies are pushing to get out of even doing that. They need to build clean and green.

After all is said and done we wouldn’t save that much money. We need to move to a new type or source of fuel entirely…or learn to live with this like Europe has. This past weekend I bought a bike, a nice 21 speed. That’s transportation to work and errands. The way I see it, it will be better for my health and my wallet. Americans are too fat and lazy to realize that they need to minimize the “footprint” of their lifestyles. Buy a bike; grow a garden for your vegetables, work close to home, don’t drive 30 miles to the mall so often. Don’t eat out so often, stay and cook at home…like a family. Simplify and survive.

A lot of good a bike will do when it's below zero, raining, or when there is snow on the ground. I can just picture taking a bike to the grocery store to buy food for 6 people. I have no place to grow a garden either.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Rico

I agree that we need to do more to develop alternative sources of fuel. However, something I never hear anyone talking about is what the increased demand on, say the electric grid, would do to the price of electricity, should we go that route. Or, if we go the route of hydrogen fuel cells, what will that do to the price of natural gas (Honda is working on home fueling stations as we speak). Even if they were to develop a car that runs on water, what will happen to the price of water when everyone is driving a water powered car? It seems to me that we will simply be shifting the burden to another already stressed resource, unless we come up with a truly new source of energy.

I am convinced that the three biggest energy sources that are about to have major impact are
Wind
Solar
Bio-fuel from Algae

these 3 have increadable potential and can have a massive effect of driving down energy costs.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

The American people don't mind paying taxes if they feel they're seeing results. For example, I don't mind paying taxes to sustain a police or fire department. I don't mind paying taxes to support the maintenance of roads and highways. It's about results. The founders waged a war over taxes that did little but bring windfall profits to the British Empire, the benefits of which they would never see.

The Democrats aren't planning on raising my taxes...I'm middle class and already pay MORE than my fair share.

Originally Posted by vrblackwell

Your wrong on this.

VRB, you are right on this! LOL!

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Right now I'm paying a greater percentage of my paycheck in taxes than most folks making over $200,000 a year. All I want to know is that they are paying their fair share. Close or cap the tax breaks and allow a number of the tax cuts to expire. They Democratic plan is targetted, it's not a whole hog tax increase.

I would like to see how you come up with this story! it should be quite elucidating!

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I simply dont think a gold standard economy is viable with the scale we have today.

Yes sir... and I agree with this.

That is actually much of my point.

What we have is an economy built on debt. A fiat economy built on debt can run like wildfire until the chickens come home to roost...

I hear the clucking and the crowing louder every day.

It is as if your family had been operating for years without going beyond your income. You only spent what you had.

Then.. you began to live debt based... meaning you had access to loans and credit cards with nearly no limit. Life is now good.... your "economy" is flourishing.

Somebody keeps telling you that you just can't keep living off of debt and one day it is all going to cause a big financial collapse.

You faithfully reply to them... "Well... looking back on our families economy I can remember no worse times than those when we lived within the confines of our income."

This is the basic discussion we are having.

I cannot, for a moments time, deny that we would not have the economy we have now had it not been based on debt and were it "held down" by our true wealth.

But we cannot, for a moments time, think that we can continue to live on debt, after debt, after more debt, after more debt and this house of cards never collapse.

The family in the discussion above is living it good. Then tight times come... because they can no longer pay the minimum payments... then they borrow money to pay the minimum payments... then the bankers "trust" goes away.

All the worth they possessed was the trust the bankers had in them.

Then... no one else will lend...

Then the collapse begins because their "lifestyle" was not a picture of their true wealth but only a picture of the trust lenders had in their "economy".

When the trust goes the debt goes and when the debt goes reality pays one long, hard & unrelenting visit.

So those pre fiat economy hard times... they were adjustment cycles... reality checks... realizations that we had spent beyond our wealth.

A debt based economy has made us free from such cycles and reality checks.

But when this chicken comes home to roost... it will own the place... and it will be one big, bad, ugly, mean, mad & hungry chicken.

All of those missed cycles will come down... all at once... in spades...

Because we left the concept of living within our means decades ago.