Disfellowshipping because of Sin: When, if ever?

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Classic "Tough Love" approach???

thats it dan, tough love, it works with our kids and our friends, and others, lol, just got to have the right motives and spirit, lol,dt

[MikeinAR]

Originally Posted by TrmptPraise

You and I have had this discussion before in relevance to outward worship. God can and will (in many cases) cause an instantaneous change in a person. It will always be preceded by a repentant heart. It does not, however, turn off the pressures or temptations of life and the world. There in lies the struggle. It is when one never comes to repentance and never fights the fight. They become an enabler of sin rather than picking up the Sword against it. Thats when a pastor has to ask themselves....is more damage being done to church body by this sin's existence than the good I can do by attempting to continue to bring this one to repentance?

Trmpt I agree with everything you said. That's a very succint account of the case of so many in churches today.

I agree with Daniel that the only real classification of sin I find is that of a sexual nature being worse since it is done against our bodies. I think to classify homosexuality as "worse" than heterosexual fornication is taking liberty with scripture. The problem I see is how long is long enough to allow for repentance?

If a cohabitating or other practicing homosexual or heterosexual couple attends your church and has heard the truth of their sinfullness yet doesn't abandon their sin, how long is it ok to not disfellowship them? Two weeks, a month, two months?

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by TrmptPraise
You and I have had this discussion before in relevance to outward worship. God can and will (in many cases) cause an instantaneous change in a person. It will always be preceded by a repentant heart. It does not, however, turn off the pressures or temptations of life and the world. There in lies the struggle. It is when one never comes to repentance and never fights the fight. They become an enabler of sin rather than picking up the Sword against it. Thats when a pastor has to ask themselves....is more damage being done to church body by this sin's existence than the good I can do by attempting to continue to bring this one to repentance?

Good post, Bro. Praise. You don't risk the entire barrell of apples by allowing one rotten one to stay. And you don't sink the ship to save one is has fallen overboard. But...disfellowhip? Tough call, seeing this is a hypothetical. That should be decided on a situational basis.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

If a cohabitating or other practicing homosexual or heterosexual couple attends your church and has heard the truth of their sinfullness yet doesn't abandon their sin, how long is it ok to not disfellowship them? Two weeks, a month, two months?

I think at this point it's best to ask for the wisdom of God as He knows the hearts of men and knows if more time is necessary or if the time is now. I think too that God is patient and longsuffering and we ought to not be quick to pull the trigger on something like this too quickly. Especially if we haven't searched our own hearts and made sure we are looking for reconciliaiton because if we're doing it from a basis of judgmentalism and not love then this negative spirit will bleed through and perhaps cause more harm than good in the long run.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

I think at this point it's best to ask for the wisdom of God as He knows the hearts of men and knows if more time is necessary or if the time is now. I think too that God is patient and longsuffering and we ought to not be quick to pull the trigger on something like this too quickly. Especially if we haven't searched our own hearts and made sure we are looking for reconciliaiton because if we're doing it from a basis of judgmentalism and not love then this negative spirit will bleed through and perhaps cause more harm than good in the long run.

Brings up another comment... sometimes those that have been cut ... after awhile find another church ... interestingly, enough I've seen pastors still bicker and whine about a pastor stealing their flock even though the person has been shunned.

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Brings up another comment... sometimes those that have been cut ... after awhile find another church ... interestingly, enough I've seen pastors still bicker and whine about a pastor stealing their flock even though the person has been shunned.

that unfortunately is true dan, what a shame, lol i have personally seen situations where the perception from the pastors behavior was that they preferred the person go to hell than be admitted to another church with proper repentance, etc, dt

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Brings up another comment... sometimes those that have been cut ... after awhile find another church ... interestingly, enough I've seen pastors still bicker and whine about a pastor stealing their flock even though the person has been shunned.

Yes, I've seen that as well. One the flip side I've also seen entire daughter churches be disfellowshiped from the main church and the pastor of the mother church instruct his staff to pray against this other spirit-filled, Christian, Jesus Name church for their failure and destruction. I don't think that's what Paul had in mind.

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Brings up another comment... sometimes those that have been cut ... after awhile find another church ... interestingly, enough I've seen pastors still bicker and whine about a pastor stealing their flock even though the person has been shunned.

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

that unfortunately is true dan, what a shame, lol i have personally seen situations where the perception from the pastors behavior was that they preferred the person go to hell than be admitted to another church with proper repentance, etc, dt

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

Yes, I've seen that as well. One the flip side I've also seen entire daughter churches be disfellowshiped from the main church and the pastor of the mother church instruct his staff to pray against this other spirit-filled, Christian, Jesus Name church for their failure and destruction. I don't think that's what Paul had in mind.

For one who complained about staying on topic in your other thread, Dan, you sure know how to let this one go....

[A_PoMo]

Hey, I'm just trying to fit in and make friends and not dictate the topic. Goin' w/the flow.

[mfblume]

Let me wax spiritually philosophical here, (yeah right!). lol

This comes to mind, since I have been doing some youtube videos about the following issue, when reading this thread. Trees of Life as opposed to Trees of the Knowledge of good and evil.

Satan's offer to Eve was a fruit that had the ability to endow her with knowledge as to what is good and what is evil. He said it would make her as wise as God. And if you are as wise as God, why need the True God? And this is ingrained in humanity, and finds it s way into preaching and handling souls in many churches! Just provide them with a list of do's and don't's, and they can MAKE THEMSELVES do good and avoid evil.

This basically removes God from the picture. God wants to GIVE LIFE. When the adulterous woman was thrown at Jesus' feet, he distinctly said He did not condemn her. LAW -- knowledge of good and evil -- said she should be stoned. Jesus gave LIFE.

Ministry to struggling souls can either be done from a knowledge of good and evil, or Life! Knowledge of good and evil is where we get the message, "You KNOW what is right and wrong, and so you should not be doing the WRONG!" When, in fact, a person can STRUGGLE with what they know is wrong, and not get victory due to lack of God's LIFE being resorted to.

To impatiently cast away souls due to their repeated sinning is to thrive on the "knowledge of good and evil". It is not administering LIFE. There is too much of that in Apostolic circles, too! People need to learn to walk after the Spirit.

Paul did not say that if we give them enough rules as to what and what not to do, they will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. He said that if we walk after the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Walking after the flesh is relying upon fleshly WILL POWER to serve God, and that fails! Walking after the Spirit is relying upon the SPIRIT LIFE inside of us that we received when we were filled with It!

By their FRUITS ye shall know them. Fruit of Life or Fruit of Knowledge of good and evil.