State of the Forum Address

[DanielR]

As requested by One Accord in the State of the forum thread (see quote) I will now tell you what the org. that I'm assocciated with does in reaching out to those that the churches (over generalization) don't feel need to be reached.

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Thank you, Brother Daniel R, and I'm glad you enjoyed the article. There are those, as you might suspect, in both camps, Trinitarian and Oneness, who might take you to task and say that there is bo room for fellowship between the two groups. But, it isn't my place to agree or disagree with you. My place to to pray for you and to encourage you in your walk with the Lord. And, to support your effort in obeying the Lord in what you feel He has called you to do. The rift between the two groups, and the rifts within the separate groups, make any cooperation and fellowship seem impossible. But, with that I disagree. I believe the Holy Spirit is big enough and strong enough so that we can share the common goal you speak of. That goal, reaching the lost, is the very heart beat of the Spirit-filled Church.

Anytime I think of the diversity within the Body of Christ I think of what General Colin Powell said in a Republican National Convention a few years ago. He said that the Republican Party is big enough and strong enough to rise above the diversity and unite together as one. And, as I heard those words, I thought, "If a political party can do that, surely the Spirit-filled Body of Christ can do so much better". And it can. If we all will realize that diversity is what built this nation. Diversity, even on this forum, is what makes it strong. And diversity is what enables your organization reach people that I, or others, cannot reach.
May God bless you as you continue to walk with Him. I'd like to know more about your group. You can post further info here, or send a PM.

1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

I am in leadership and part of an orginazation of Christians from many different denominations and sects that goes to and reaches out to people in areas that most Christians would never get caught dead in. The Christian rate in these areas are between 10-20% so you can see the need for ministry in these areas as well as the fact that 8-9 out of every 10 people are perspectives to being led to the Lord. These people must be witnessed to in their world because they are not receptive to evangalism outside of it, for the most part (although there are a few exceptions). These people are right under your noses, many of you will condemn them if you only knew the truth about them, and for that reason alone is why I can reach them better than you can. Their ony crime in not trusting in the Lord, and the reason many of them don't is because they see a HUGE inconsisantcy between nature and what many Christians teach about the God of nature. They believe with all their hearts this scripture in Genesis 1

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2

25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

But when they hear from Bible teachers that they must be covered up all the time with clothing they outright reject the Gospel due to the contradictions between Genesis chapters 1 & 2 and what is taught behind the pulpits. Who are these people, most are called nudists or naturist, although must won't wear either name so I'll just call them naked people in a social setting. (Now, let me clarify, I'm not talking about swingers or people engaged in group sex, although they misuse social nudity, that is not what nudism or naturism is about.) I'm talking about people that can and do distinguish between a naked body and sexual activity. These people adhere to personal actions of modesty that exceedes what you will find in church most sunday mornings, they just don't follow the modesty in clothing argument. (If everyone around them in dressed the same, how can you tell who's immodest?)

OK, now what we ("we" read christians with a burden to reach these people with a message of salvation) do is go into this non-sexual setting whether it be a clothing optional beach, a naturist resort, or a social nudist gathering of friends (just like many of you will do in a clothed gathering, resort, job, whatever) to be a Light for those that are there. You've heard the saying, "When in Rome, dress as the Romans" that's right, to be effective in witnessing to these people, they have to be able to see that you also believe that Genesis chapters 1 & 2 are also currently relevent to you as well.

So where does the org. that I'm in leadership fit in? Once a year in a few parts of the country we hold conferences at a resort to encourage and equip the saints with the tools needed to be a witness in their areas. My position is to plan, schedule, and run the midwest convention held in Missouri. This is pretty much a weekend retreat, but you will be fed alot of spiritual meat and potatoes during the weekend. The org. is called the Christian Nudist Convocation or CNC for short. If your interested to know more about the ministry, their website is http://www.cnvillage.org/cnc/index.htm We also support some home study groups that take place in the larger cities.

We use ordained pastors and lay ministers for our training seesions and our Sunday morning service. We come from many denominations, yet we share the burden of reaching the lost in this subculture.

I am just answering a question with this long post, please don't take it as promoting this subculture in any way, that is not my intent.

Daniel

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

State of the Forum Address

Good evening, Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am not Administration. Nor am I an owner or moderator. I am a registered member. I joined this forum on Feb, 10, 2007 and, with this post, I will have posted 1080 times. This will be the 96th thread that I have started. Statistically, I average 2.87 posts per day.

The are a number of reasons people join internet forums. Those reason vary widely depending on the type of forum one joins. This forum would be considered a religious forum. Specifically, it is an Apostolic Forum. That means, the ownership and the overwhelming majority of the members are members of the Apostolic Faith. They hold Acts 2:38 as the very foundation of their religious experience. Moving away from that foundation , however, we can begin to detect differences. Not divisions, but differing views. Is the Apostolic Friends Forum divided? Yes, but division is the very nature of public forums. People from all across America, from Canada, and from all points around the globe see the name of the forum, APOSTOLIC Friends Forum, and, because they desire fellowship and identity with like-minded brothers and sisters, the huddle together under the word APOSTOLIC like people under an umbrella trying to dodge a rain shower. Its while we wait for the rain to pass that we begin to talk. And, we discover that, though we share the same umbrella, there are differences in our beliefs. Sometimes, that talk develops into discussions, and rarely into debates. On even rarer occasions, conflicts develop and words are exchanged that causes anger and hurt feelings.

The thing to bear in mind is that, while there are differences among us, we are all huddled under one umbrella: APOSTOLIC. We all came here to seek refuge from the storms of life in general. The soaking rains of doubt, fear and unbelief are soaking a sinful world all around us, but here we are, safe and dry, protected, at least for a season, from the rigors of life. And, we are together. Just as Jesus intended when He prayed in the garden that we be one. How is it possible for such a diverse people to come together in unity and fellowship? Well, actually, it isn’t possible, at least not through human effort. A people long ago attempted to be one and build a tower to reach the heavens, and, because theirs was a human effort, the efforts were in vain. But God, in His infinite wisdom, provided the means for us to achieve that which is humanly impossible: the Holy Spirit. By the very Spirit of the Living God that dwells in our hearts, we have the means to become one in Christ. When you stop to think about it, there is no oneness outside of Christ. Denominations have been established to unite people, but the grow and fall, because, like the tower of Babel, denominations are human effort.

It was the Holy Ghost given at Pentecost that united the 120 there in Jerusalem. It was the Holy Spirit that added three thousand to the church then, and it is the Holy Ghost poured out down through the years that have added us to God’s Kingdom. We are a blessed people… we have what the world’s political machines cannot not provide. We have unity. No, we may not always agree. Our doctrines may differ. Our belief system, developed, not be a manual or creed, but by a spiritual experience of being reborn into God’s Kingdom, may not always agree, but the Spirit within us does agree, bearing witness with our spirits that we are God’s children.

Of course, within our ranks, are labels. Personally, I despise the labels but have come to accept them as a necessary evil. We are known by our labels- our convictions are erroneously and wrongly judged by the labels pinned us. Cons. Mods and Libs. Our allegiance to the Lord Jesus is often questioned by these carnal labels, as if someone can see through the label and see the very intents of the heart.. But, that isn’t possible. Only God sees the heart, and I suspect that when He looks at the heart of those who bear the name Christian, He sees His own reflection.

So what of these alleged “changes” in the Forum? I can recall just a few weeks ago when someone alluded to changes in the Forum. Some said the change was refreshing. Others said they like the changes. But now, more changes have come and some are concerned. Some see this as a beginning of the end for AFF. But, no, this forum, like all forums that go through change, will continue as is. It will grow. It will weather the storm. How? By those who huddle under the Apostolic umbrella. The truth is, the Forum can know say without reservation that it is “ a place where Apostolics can communicate with freedom”. In reality, those words can be shouted because the recent changes open new doors of opportunity. There is, as someone recently posted, “ a new breeze blowing” at the Apostolic Friends Forum. The rains beat around us, but, this Forum will weather this storm just as it has the storms of the past.

We regret losing these valued members. But, we support them in their decision by urging them to remain true to their convictions. We will miss their valued posts- but the Forum will live on. We will remain in One Accord, doing just what those words mean, “rushing forward, in unison.”. The Forum will not rise like a Phoenix from the ashes, because it has never fallen. It stands today and for a long timeto come as a shining example of what happens when God’s people comes together in the Unity of the Spirit. God bless the Apostolic Friend Forum, and God bless the owners, moderators and members of this great Forum!

Once again, OA, you have proven that you are the statesman for AFF. This post makes me want to surrender my "adminship" to you!

Very well said......

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by R.D. Foster

1. Essential---Biblical New Birth, John 3:5. Acts 2:38 is the way.
2. Essential---A Crucified Life, Luke 14:27. Romans through Jude is the way.
3. Essential---Holiness, Hebrews 12:14. Biblical New Birth and A Crucified Life are the way.

Acts 2:38 is the 'door' to salvation. We MUST continue on to know the Lord. (John 8:31-32, Acts 14:22, Romans 11:20-22, Colossians 1:22-23, I Timothy 4:6,16, II Timothy 3:10-16, Hebrews 13:1, I John 3:24)

I am sorry that your experience has been so lacking in Christianity. You will be part of my prayers today.

BTW, without birth there is no need for college, marriage, etc. Without Biblical New Birth, there is no need for living the Christian life because at the end one will be lost. Those 'mere seconds' are essential.

I'm sorry, my friend, but judging by your words, it is YOUR experience that is severely lacking in Christianity. Your comments to One Accord concerning his "judging spirit", and your comments to Randy implying that because he thinks we should major on living for God, not JUST the moment of salvation, appear to me to be judgmental in the most extreme sense.

Just my humble opinion.

[OneAccord]

Well, I HAD to be the one to ask. But, brother, without critizing or condemning, I pray that you reach souls for Christ.

I'm reminded of the fact that you are not the first group to minister to Nudist, as I am sure you are aware. Jesus, as well, ministered to at least one of that sub-culture. In Mark 5, He ministered to the man who dwelled among the tombs. This man was, as the Bible says, possessed of the devil and was naked. Now I don't mean to imply this man compares with those you minister to, that isn't the point. The point is, the end result of the ministry Jesus was engaged in and that of your group. The purpose of Jesus' ministry to this man, and, as you stated the purpose of your ministry, is one and the same. Reaching the lost. Conversion. Deliverance. If, in fact, that is true, we can rest assured that the end result of your ministry is the same as that of Christs: That is, that your ministry brings these converts to a more correct way of living which includes the manner in which they dress. In other words, without being judgemental, in the end of your ministry of "winning these souls to Christ", we can assume they are left as Jesus left the man among the tombs: "...clothed, and in [their] right mind". Mar 5:15

If, in fact, it is true that your ministry "delivers" these people from a lifestyle that is clearly unacceptable to God, then I pray for you to be successful, though I can assure you this isn't an area of ministry I would feel comfortable in undertaking. If however, your ministry fails to encourage its converts to depart from this behavior, then I pray for you and the work you are with to align themselves (and yourself) to the Word of God. A conversion that does not teach "Come out from among" sinful practices is no conversion at all. It is condoning unacceptable practice. I am sorry if it sounds as if I am making an assumption here but I see nothing in your posts that suggests your ministry encourages a departure from a lifestyle totally contray to God's Word. If that is the case...it isn't a ministry at all- it is but a means to justify and condone an action or lifestyle totally devoid of any modicum of Christianity.

This Scripture, admittedly taken out of context, speaks volumes of any person or ministry who teaches "conversion" without a departure from sinful behavior: 2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

[OneAccord]

Reference Post # 51 DanielR-

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Well, I HAD to be the one to ask. But, brother, without critizing or condemning, I pray that you reach souls for Christ.

I'm reminded of the fact that you are not the first group to minister to Nudist, as I am sure you are aware. Jesus, as well, ministered to at least one of that sub-culture. In Mark 5, He ministered to the man who dwelled among the tombs. This man was, as the Bible says, possessed of the devil and was naked. Now I don't mean to imply this man compares with those you minister to, that isn't the point. The point is, the end result of the ministry Jesus was engaged in and that of your group. The purpose of Jesus' ministry to this man, and, as you stated the purpose of your ministry, is one and the same. Reaching the lost. Conversion. Deliverance. If, in fact, that is true, we can rest assured that the end result of your ministry is the same as that of Christs: That is, that your ministry brings these converts to a more correct way of living which includes the manner in which they dress. In other words, without being judgemental, in the end of your ministry of "winning these souls to Christ", we can assume they are left as Jesus left the man among the tombs: "...clothed, and in [their] right mind". Mar 5:15

If, in fact, it is true that your ministry "delivers" these people from a lifestyle that is clearly unacceptable to God, then I pray for you to be successful, though I can assure you this isn't an area of ministry I would feel comfortable in undertaking. If however, your ministry fails to encourage its converts to depart from this behavior, then I pray for you and the work you are with to align themselves (and yourself) to the Word of God. A conversion that does not teach "Come out from among" sinful practices is no conversion at all. It is condoning unacceptable practice. I am sorry if it sounds as if I am making an assumption here but I see nothing in your posts that suggests your ministry encourages a departure from a lifestyle totally contray to God's Word. If that is the case...it isn't a ministry at all- it is but a means to justify and condone an action or lifestyle totally devoid of any modicum of Christianity.

This Scripture, admittedly taken out of context, speaks volumes of any person or ministry who teaches "conversion" without a departure from sinful behavior: 2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by DanielR

As requested by One Accord in the State of the forum thread (see quote) I will now tell you what the org. that I'm assocciated with does in reaching out to those that the churches (over generalization) don't feel need to be reached.



I am in leadership and part of an orginazation of Christians from many different denominations and sects that goes to and reaches out to people in areas that most Christians would never get caught dead in. The Christian rate in these areas are between 10-20% so you can see the need for ministry in these areas as well as the fact that 8-9 out of every 10 people are perspectives to being led to the Lord. These people must be witnessed to in their world because they are not receptive to evangalism outside of it, for the most part (although there are a few exceptions). These people are right under your noses, many of you will condemn them if you only knew the truth about them, and for that reason alone is why I can reach them better than you can. Their ony crime in not trusting in the Lord, and the reason many of them don't is because they see a HUGE inconsisantcy between nature and what many Christians teach about the God of nature. They believe with all their hearts this scripture in Genesis 1

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2

25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

But when they hear from Bible teachers that they must be covered up all the time with clothing they outright reject the Gospel due to the contradictions between Genesis chapters 1 & 2 and what is taught behind the pulpits. Who are these people, most are called nudists or naturist, although must won't wear either name so I'll just call them naked people in a social setting. (Now, let me clarify, I'm not talking about swingers or people engaged in group sex, although they misuse social nudity, that is not what nudism or naturism is about.) I'm talking about people that can and do distinguish between a naked body and sexual activity. These people adhere to personal actions of modesty that exceedes what you will find in church most sunday mornings, they just don't follow the modesty in clothing argument. (If everyone around them in dressed the same, how can you tell who's immodest?)

OK, now what we ("we" read christians with a burden to reach these people with a message of salvation) do is go into this non-sexual setting whether it be a clothing optional beach, a naturist resort, or a social nudist gathering of friends (just like many of you will do in a clothed gathering, resort, job, whatever) to be a Light for those that are there. You've heard the saying, "When in Rome, dress as the Romans" that's right, to be effective in witnessing to these people, they have to be able to see that you also believe that Genesis chapters 1 & 2 are also currently relevent to you as well.

So where does the org. that I'm in leadership fit in? Once a year in a few parts of the country we hold conferences at a resort to encourage and equip the saints with the tools needed to be a witness in their areas. My position is to plan, schedule, and run the midwest convention held in Missouri. This is pretty much a weekend retreat, but you will be fed alot of spiritual meat and potatoes during the weekend. The org. is called the Christian Nudist Convocation or CNC for short. If your interested to know more about the ministry, their website is http://www.cnvillage.org/cnc/index.htm We also support some home study groups that take place in the larger cities.

We use ordained pastors and lay ministers for our training seesions and our Sunday morning service. We come from many denominations, yet we share the burden of reaching the lost in this subculture.

I am just answering a question with this long post, please don't take it as promoting this subculture in any way, that is not my intent.

Daniel

WOW! I am ordained! Can I be a part of this organization and take my clothes off too and minister?


I've got to admit, this is the first time I've heard of this type of "ministry." I think Jesus had them put their clothes on.....the demoniac, after Jesus was clothed and in his right mind.

People can justify anything, IMO. I think this is just weird...sorry.

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

No sir, and you're not sounding negative at all, there is ONLY ONE WAY to be saved. Jesus said it quite clearly: He, and He alone, is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He is the only path to salvation.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8-9

We are saved through faith in His finished work at Calvary, and our salvation is maintained by His grace that works in our lives. What I was referring to awas the standards that people feel they need, or do no need, to be saved. Some feel STRICT, almost legalistic, standards are required. Some feel more liberal standards are all that is necessary. That is what I do not judge. That is between them and God. I know what it takes for ME to be (I should say REMAIN) saved. Because my reply was about "standards and holiness" the brother spoke of. Which I addressed in a previos post.

SOME DO need to stay in a tight box to remain saved . . . they NEED strictness to protect them from temptation. Others, not so much.

I know what my boundaries are ... and I keep a tight rein where needed.

Brother OA, I appreciate your posts. And many others here too!! I have truly been MINISTERED to on more than one occasion here. Thanks for taking the time to post!!

There was a man, David Wilkerson I believe, who wrote a book, back in the 70's called "The Vision". It was about the endtimes. Everything that seemed so shocking then, is becoming common place now. This includes the practice of homosexuality being normalized in churches. Also, he saw dancing (not in the spirit, but uniformally) in the churches. He also saw nudity in the churches as well. To my knowledge he was not Apostolic, but everything he talked about is coming true. This was to preceed the tribulation and coming of the Lord for his Bride. Scarey, since now we are moved from the "unthinkable" to "thinking nothing of it".

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by running free

There was a man, David Wilkerson I believe, who wrote a book, back in the 70's called "The Vision". It was about the endtimes. Everything that seemed so shocking then, is becoming common place now. This includes the practice of homosexuality being normalized in churches. Also, he saw dancing (not in the spirit, but uniformally) in the churches. He also saw nudity in the churches as well. To my knowledge he was not Apostolic, but everything he talked about is coming true. This was to preceed the tribulation and coming of the Lord for his Bride. Scarey, since now we are moved from the "unthinkable" to "thinking nothing of it".

No David Wilkerson isn't Apostolic, and I Haven't read anything of him in a while, but if ever the spirit of prophecy rested on a man, I believe it is upon him. His lille book "Set the trumpet to thy mouth" was powerful. I haven't read the Vision I don't think, but I believe God used the brother to speak to the church of the last days!

[Angeleina930]

Ok, I feel better about joining this site. I was worried after my experience with "Everyone's Apostolic." The Apostolic Church does have it's foundation in Acts, especially the 1st and 2nd chapters. One thing that concerns me is that people stop at Acts 2:38. After that then what? The apostles continued: action, progress. I don't know if you all feel this way but it gets frustrating when I see Christians sitting on their laurels. But, to God be the glory!!!