Spiritual Co-dendency in the churches?

[whollyHis]

The cup of bitterness is a horrible drink- it will eventually snuff out your happiness with life, completely.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Question: What does "question leadership" mean to you and what did the bible mean by "obey those that rule over you and watch over your souls"?

Question leadership to me means: Beware, use caution, do not blindly trust and receive what is preached and taught. Search what he teaches and preaches in the word.


Obey those that rule and watch: I will obey as to respect the Pecking order.
I will not just obey and trust because he said so.
I might obey as long as it agrees with the word.
But I will not trust any man, I will always use caution to what any Pastor would require of me.
If a Pastor says sell your car and give the money to the church; I will say he is out of his mind.

Many Preachers, Pastors and saints have had to make a choice in weather to obey a Pastor or do what they know the lord is leading them to do.
I am very Leary of any preacher that often describes others as rebellious.

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Show me even one Scripture where this concept is supported.

One man led Israel out of Egypt; a committee of 12 men sentenced them to a 40 year long death march.

Democracy?

The Church is a theocracy.

Some of your ideas are beyond silly.

Do you ever read your Bible, Coop?

Where do you get some of this stuff?

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by COOPER

Question leadership to me means: Beware, use caution, do not blindly trust and receive what is preached and taught. Search what he teaches and preaches in the word.


Obey those that rule and watch: I will obey as to respect the Pecking order.
I will not just obey and trust because he said so.
I might obey as long as it agrees with the word.
But I will not trust any man, I will always use caution to what any Pastor would require of me.
If a Pastor says sell your car and give the money to the church; I will say he is out of his mind.

Many Preachers, Pastors and saints have had to make a choice in weather to obey a Pastor or do what they know the lord is leading them to do.
I am very Leary of any preacher that often describes others as rebellious.

OK, you have told us what you "might" do; now take a swing at telling us what the Bible means by the passages in question.

You still haven't answered.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Instead of answering the question, you just continue to slam the UPC and its preachers.

This is very transparent.

You aren't fooling anybody.

The question is about what the Bible says, not your well-documented contempt for the ministry.

What ever Coon, sit in the seat of scornful.
I do not like the UPC attitude, especially from Card holding members.
If any one does not fall down and obey they are contempt of ministry?
Many good men have left UPC and are Pastoring good churches.
They have seen a better way.
any way ..................
I do not express my self diplomatically but I do speak honestly.

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by COOPER

Coon, I would never set under a Pastor that would not want me to question his leadership and just blindly obey his every wim.
My wife and your wife would not put up with us if we just used the Scripture as a Trump card and say "The bible says; wifes are to obey the husband and what I says goes !"
And Pastors use the "obey those that rule and what over yours souls" verse as a trump card too.
It just does'nt fly.

My wife will tell anyone that I am the head of the house. I have heard her tell our kids a number of times " your father will decide for us and we will do as he says" The bible tell women to be under subjection to their husbands. Just another scripture that you don't like.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by COOPER

What ever Coon, sit in the seat of scornful.
I do not like the UPC attitude, especially from Card holding members.
If any one does not fall down and obey they are contempt of ministry?
Many good men have left UPC and are Pastoring good churches.
They have seen a better way.
any way ..................
I do not express my self diplomatically but I do speak honestly.

Coop, rying to get a straight answer out of you is like trying to staple jello.

I give up for now.

I have been trying to get you to deal with the Scripture, and typically, you have continued to just make it all about you, and your grievances and objections and complaints.

Carry on...I am bored with this.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

OK, you have told us what you "might" do; now take a swing at telling us what the Bible means by the passages in question.


You still haven't answered.

I know I would never obey you Coon.
and would never obey any other Pastor with your attitude.
Frankly this obey in the word means to obey pecking order, as to keep an orderly function in the body.
It says obey, not bow down to some power tripping pastor that twist the word to get his way with human beings.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by COOPER

Question leadership to me means: Beware, use caution, do not blindly trust and receive what is preached and taught. Search what he teaches and preaches in the word.

ok, I don't have a problem with that. Paul called the Bereans more noble for doing that. However it should be done in the right spirit.

Obey those that rule and watch: I will obey as to respect the Pecking order.
I will not just obey and trust because he said so.

Im not really sure what you are intending on meaning here. Would it be possible to explain more?

I might obey as long as it agrees with the word.

I think might should be will, otherwise it might sound like you have a problem with authority in general.

But I will not trust any man, I will always use caution to what any Pastor would require of me.

You won't trust any man? Did you mean it to sound that way?

If a Pastor says sell your car and give the money to the church; I will say he is out of his mind.

So will I, though that is an extreme example and I can certainly tell you no UPC Pastor even even remotely suggested I do that.

Many Preachers, Pastors and saints have had to make a choice in weather to obey a Pastor or do what they know the lord is leading them to do.
I am very Leary of any preacher that often describes others as rebellious.

I would be leary or larry too (or is it leery?) If they often said that. On the other hand I would be leery of preachers or non-preachers that are always bashing an entire group based on a the experiences of a few preachers.

Thanks for answering

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Coop, rying to get a straight answer out of you is like trying to staple jello.

I give up for now.

I have been trying to get you to deal with the Scripture, and typically, you have continued to just make it all about you, and your grievances and objections and complaints.

Carry on...I am bored with this.

It because that upc loyalty is crammed so far in that brain of yours; you can't comprehend.