Christians and Politics

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

It’s really quite simple. You have started a position that Jesus clearly disagrees with. His kingdom is not of this world. You are describing an earthly or worldly kingdom. You’re wrong.

Does that clear things up?

Of His kingdom there shall be no end.

2Pet.3

[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This world is going to be toast.

I have a ?

Are you currently not in the kingdom?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

This world as in this planet? This world as we know it? Or this world as this system? This world as this country? Just asking as to what exactly will be toast?

Brother,

The scripture I copied and pasted specifically says the earth and the heavens. That is our world. Let me post it again.

[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Maybe this will clarify.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by diakonos

I have a ?

Are you currently not in the kingdom?

I am. Are you? Was Jesus when He declared His kingdom was not of this world? Was he subject to the laws of the San Hedrin and the Romans?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I am. Are you? Was Jesus when He declared His kingdom was not of this world? Was he subject to the laws of the San Hedrin and the Romans?

How were members of the Sanhedrin appointed? Did Jesus participate in that?

Yet, you said you "vote".

Hmm...

Anyways, I notice that you replied to several posts, but have not yet explained how Jesus' words apply to the subject being discussed. Almost like you don't really have an explanation. Just some soundbites, maybe? It's okay, lots of people repeat what they have been told, and have mottoes and formulaic expressions that they believe are "theology", yet don't have any organised consistent thought process behind it. So, it's understandable. Maybe go back and read the Scriptures I posted back on page 1 (I believe it was page 1?) and perhaps you can work on getting some organised thought process going.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Esaias

How were members of the Sanhedrin appointed? Did Jesus participate in that?

Yet, you said you "vote".

Hmm...

Anyways, I notice that you replied to several posts, but have not yet explained how Jesus' words apply to the subject being discussed. Almost like you don't really have an explanation. Just some soundbites, maybe? It's okay, lots of people repeat what they have been told, and have mottoes and formulaic expressions that they believe are "theology", yet don't have any organised consistent thought process behind it. So, it's understandable. Maybe go back and read the Scriptures I posted back on page 1 (I believe it was page 1?) and perhaps you can work on getting some organised thought process going.

You’re correct. I did repeat words. They are the he words of Jesus. Do you really need me to explain their meaning? Or is it that you don’t want to believe what they mean?

My kingdom is not of this world. Think about it. You seem to be thinking the same way the Jews were thinking. That is why Jesus had to explain it to them.
Allow me to repeat some more of what I’ve been told.

Luke 17
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother,

The scripture I copied and pasted specifically says the earth and the heavens. That is our world. Let me post it again.

[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Maybe this will clarify.

OK, in Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Therefore all points of the Law (no matter how minute) are still be in place.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

OK, in Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Therefore all points of the Law (no matter how minute) are still be in place.

Matt.5

[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.



Jesus fulfilled the law. That’s why we’re not sacrificing goats and bulls.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

You’re correct. I did repeat words. They are the he words of Jesus. Do you really need me to explain their meaning? Or is it that you don’t want to believe what they mean?

My kingdom is not of this world. Think about it. You seem to be thinking the same way the Jews were thinking. That is why Jesus had to explain it to them.
Allow me to repeat some more of what I’ve been told.

Luke 17
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I'll take that as a "No, Esaias, I can't explain the Scriptures nor my doctrine, I just declare you are wrong and will leave it at that." Kind of like the way a lot of preachers do with tithing, they just "repeat the Scriptures" and say "there ya go, now cough it up", no explanations, no discussion, no answering questions.

By the way, you said I seem to be thinking the same way the Jews were thinking. What's interesting is, just like the Jews, you also do not understand the Kingdom of God. You have taken me (with me quoting the Scriptures) the same way the Jews took Jesus and His words concerning the Kingdom. I always find it fascinating when people accuse others of doing what they themselves are actually doing. Fascinating, yes, a very fascinating phenomenon.

Anyhoo, I'll just repeat some Scriptures too:

Proverbs 29:2 KJV
When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

2 Samuel 23:2-4 KJV
The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue. [3] The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God. [4] And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.

Is that too old testament for you? I'll give you a new testament Scripture:

Luke 1:31-33 KJV
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Matt.5

[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.



Jesus fulfilled the law. That’s why we’re not sacrificing goats and bulls.

Yet another example of Bible ignorance, this time regarding the meaning of "fulfilled".

(Please note, Tithesmeister, I am not directing this reply to you. I am simply quoting your statement as an example. I am actually directing this post to whoever reads this thread.)

People think that if Jesus "fulfilled" some requirement of the law, that therefore we as Christians do not have to "do" that requirement of the law. But notice,

1. There is nothing that says "till the sacrificial requirements of the law are fulfilled." Rather, it speaks of "the law AND THE PROPHETS" being fulfilled. So people who say "Jesus fulfilled the law therefore we don't sacrifice goats and bulls" have no idea what they are even talking about.

2. People who make these sorts of claims do not have a clue what "fulfilled" even means. Therefore, their opinions on what was fulfilled, and what that means for us, is irrelevant. The meaning of fulfilled is explained by the Bible itself:

James 2:8-9 KJV
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

To fulfill the law means to DO what is commanded. Here is another example:

Romans 2:25-27 KJV
For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26] Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27] And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

To fulfill the law is to "keep the righteousness of the law", which is "to keep the law", which is the opposite of "to break the law". In other words, to fulfill the law means to do what is commanded, as opposed to breaking the law, which is to do that which is forbidden or fail to do that which is commanded.

One more example:

Romans 8:2-8 KJV
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. [3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. [6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. [8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Once again, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who are follow the Spirit and not the flesh. Those who follow the flesh are not subject to the law of God and can't be, they are "enmity with God", that is, they are opposed to God and His will (His law). They do not obey God. Instead, those who walk according the Spirit do in fact obey God, that is what it means to have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in them.

So then, we see that "to fulfill the law" means to obey God. Since Jesus obeyed God, "therefore we don't have to do XYZ?" In other words, Jesus obeyed God so therefore we don't have to obey God? That is the actual reasoning process of those people who ignorantly repeat the soundbite theology handed to them.

So in conclusion, we see that Jesus fulfilling the law, and the prophets, has nothing whatsoever to do with what you and I ought to do or ought not to do, it has nothing to do with whether or not you and I should OBEY GOD.

Thus endeth the lesson.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Matt.5

[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.



Jesus fulfilled the law. That’s why we’re not sacrificing goats and bulls.

So, I take it toast isn't toast?