If You Are A Disciple

[1 God]

The apostles thought they were in the last days(end of the age), but this was always in the back of their mind....34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;. Jesus told them about it per Luke 21;24, but they found out the hard way when Israel was not restored yet in their lifetimes. This event was reserved for us to see.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1 God

The apostles thought they were in the last days(end of the age), but this was always in the back of their mind....34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;. Jesus told them about it per Luke 21;24, but they found out the hard way when Israel was not restored yet in their lifetimes. This event was reserved for us to see.

Another disciple of Darby displays their wares...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

An eschatological question:

When did the so-called "end of the world" take place?

Answer:

Hebrews 9:26 (KJV),



The so-called "end of the world" occurred when Jesus died on the cross, that is, when He appeared to put away sin by sacrificing Himself, circa 33AD.

How is this possible? The key is understanding the Greek behind the phrase "end of the world". It is as follows:

...συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων (synteleia tōn aiōnōn)...

See: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/heb...bG0FDKfBb4_Vz4

In fact, wherever in the King James Version of the Bible the phrase "end of the world" exists, you will find the Greek phrase above. So, what does "...συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων (synteleia tōn aiōnōn)..." mean?

It means "the consummation of the age/s" (sometimes the last word is found in the singular, sometimes in the plural).

One key place you can find this phrase is in Matthew 24:3 (KJV):



Many millions of Christians over the years have believed and insisted that Matthew 24 is a long-term, even far future prophecy of the so-called end of the world. But note the Greek used here in Matthew 24:3:

...συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος (synteleias tou aiōnos)...

See: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/mat...kZKhPygmPzyvxE

It's the same phrase. The disciples didn't want to know anything about some far-flung concept of global, even planetary destruction. They were not concerned with the end of a "what", but rather, with the end of a "when". That "when" was the age in which THEY were living, that would come to an end. And Jesus told them plainly throughout the rest of the chapter: When the Romans destroy Jerusalem, in particular the temple, as happened 40 or so years later in 70 AD.

What does this mean for us today? It means the church needs a radically differently eschatological paradigm. Said more bluntly, it's high time believers got their head out of the news and back into the Book.

Ephesians 3:21 (KJV),



Jesus is not glorified in the church through all ages, world without end, if He smashes to bits the planet and annihilates the people He came to save, the very ones He sacrificed Himself at the consummation of the ages nearly 20 centuries ago, to rescue and redeem. To think otherwise is to admit Christ is defeated, and that God cannot save to the uttermost all who come to Him through His Son, at least not everyone. Just some.

The truth is your world might end today. You've got enough to worry about without fearing some so-called always in the future but never seems to happen "end of the world" scenario that isn't taught in the Holy Scriptures.

And if you know these things, dear brothers and sisters, you might find the strength, courage, and resolve, to start putting things back together that have fallen apart, starting with the Tabernacle of David, that is, the Church, and then, you might find the strength, courage, and resolve to help the Lord Jesus save the world God loved enough to send His Son to, to bring it back from the dead.

Matthew 28:20 (KJV),



Tikkun Olam 2021.

Genesis 49:1 KJV
And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

The events prophesied by Jacob in the verses of that chapter were fulfilled....

1. Over 1000 years BEFORE Christ was born. And,

2. Over an extended period of time encompassing several centuries if not a millennium

Therefore, "the last days" do NOT mean strictly "the last half of the 20th century AD/first half of the 21st century", nor do they mean strictly "from Jesus' birth to 70 AD", nor do they mean any singular, particular, short period of time at all.

Rather the term means the time in which some particular prophecy is fulfilled.

The end of the age is just that - the end of an era. It signifies a transition from one era to another, often precipitated by certain prophetic fulfillments. Thus the "last days" take place at the "end of the age".

The term has eschatological meaning more so than temporal. It refers more to the outworking of God's Divine Plan than it does to any secular time keeping scheme.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Another disciple of Darby displays their wares...

I have never read anything of his. I quote the scripture alone. In both Luke 2 and Luke 21 it says Israel will fall and return..... 34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel;...24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until....
Paul even confirms Luke....25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Genesis 49:1 KJV
And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

The events prophesied by Jacob in the verses of that chapter were fulfilled....

1. Over 1000 years BEFORE Christ was born. And,

2. Over an extended period of time encompassing several centuries if not a millennium

Therefore, "the last days" do NOT mean strictly "the last half of the 20th century AD/first half of the 21st century", nor do they mean strictly "from Jesus' birth to 70 AD", nor do they mean any singular, particular, short period of time at all.

Rather the term means the time in which some particular prophecy is fulfilled.

The end of the age is just that - the end of an era. It signifies a transition from one era to another, often precipitated by certain prophetic fulfillments. Thus the "last days" take place at the "end of the age".

The term has eschatological meaning more so than temporal. It refers more to the outworking of God's Divine Plan than it does to any secular time keeping scheme.

That's a good point. The Hebrew word has a few meanings depending on the context. Probably a better translation in many case, including this one, is "latter days" or "days to come", not meaning a deterministic period relative to something, but to simply mean "in the coming future".

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by coksiw

That's a good point. The Hebrew word has a few meanings depending on the context. Probably a better translation in many case, including this one, is "latter days" or "days to come", not meaning a deterministic period relative to something, but to simply mean "in the coming future".

I would think latter days and last days would mean essentially the same thing?

The Hebrew is literally "the last of the days" (b'acharit ha-yamim). The Greek is "eschaton hemeron", or "end of days". Hebrews 1:2 (actually verse 1 in the Textus Receptus) in Greek uses "eschaton ton hemeron", or "end of the days", which is basically the same thing.

So "last days" doesn't mean "in the coming future" (Hebrews 1:2 wouldn't make sense if that were the case), rather it literally means "last/end of (the) days". Theologically, as determined by Biblical usage, it refers to any time in which prophecies come to pass, marking the end of one era and the transition into a new era.

Votivesoul is correct, folks need to (re)acquire a Biblical eschatology. The false paradigms rampant in Christendom have effectively neutered the church. As they were intended to do...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1 God

I have never read anything of his.

Most of his other disciples haven't, either, and it usually shows.

I quote the scripture alone.

Are you sure about that? Let's see.

In both Luke 2 and Luke 21 it says Israel will fall and return..... 34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel

Fall and rise doesn't necessarily mean "fall and RETURN". See? You didn't just quote Scripture. You added an interpretation. A false one at that. One popularised by Darby, Scofield, Larkin, TBN, and most modern prophecy pundits of the last 100 years.

You assume that "Israel" in the Bible means the people today who call themselves "Jews" (and are not, but are instead the synagogue of Satan according to Jesus Christ - Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9). You assume the Bible teaches the Jews would reoccupy Jerusalem and Palestine right before the "Tribulation of seven years" marking the short countdown of "the last days", the rise and reign of "The Antichrist"(TM), the "Rapture", and the end of the world.

But these are heretical doctrines introduced during the 1600s-1800s BY DESIGN to promote Christian support of a political movement among certain Zionist Jews and their Anglo-Scottish backers (who were and are in debt to the Vatican). It's literally a hodge-podge of Freemasonic kabbalistic Zionist propaganda invented to not only bolster the political aspirations of the true Biblical antichrist, but render Christianity impotent in order to prevent any repeats of various medieval pogroms.

The people today who claim to be "Jews" are not actual Judeans except in the sense they claim to follow the religion of Pharisaism. Ethnically about half of them are a mixed Turkic, Slavic, and Arabic group, and from what I remember the Jewish Almanac claimed the other approximately 50% are Oriental (east Asian). The Jewish Encyclopedia also acknowledges that Edom is a part of Jewry as well. Moreover, there is NO prophecy saying anything about antichrist unbelieving degenerate Jews being given Palestine as a result of the Abrahamic Covenant. The promises to Israel of return from captivity are CONDITIONED UPON REPENTANCE.

But those promises aren't applicable to the people today known as "Jews" anyway, anymore than the Apache Indians can lay claim to any supposed Divine inheritance to Jerusalem or its environs "because muh Abraham".

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I would think latter days and last days would mean essentially the same thing?

The Hebrew is literally "the last of the days" (b'acharit ha-yamim). The Greek is "eschaton hemeron", or "end of days". Hebrews 1:2 (actually verse 1 in the Textus Receptus) in Greek uses "eschaton ton hemeron", or "end of the days", which is basically the same thing.

So "last days" doesn't mean "in the coming future" (Hebrews 1:2 wouldn't make sense if that were the case), rather it literally means "last/end of (the) days". Theologically, as determined by Biblical usage, it refers to any time in which prophecies come to pass, marking the end of one era and the transition into a new era.

Votivesoul is correct, folks need to (re)acquire a Biblical eschatology. The false paradigms rampant in Christendom have effectively neutered the church. As they were intended to do...

You re right, last days = latter days. No idea what I was thinking. I agree with you about the meaning of it from the theological standpoint.
I never heard of "last days" meaning consistently and always the last 7 years among futurist I know, but it is just my anecdotal experience.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by coksiw

You re right, last days = latter days. No idea what I was thinking. I agree with you about the meaning of it from the theological standpoint.
I never heard of "last days" meaning consistently and always the last 7 years among futurist I know, but it is just my anecdotal experience.

It's been my experience that most people seem to think the last days must surely refer to THEIR times and no other...

[1 God]

No, we understand the last days as an era of time. There is no other explanation. Peter said we are officially in the last days per Acts 2, culminating in cataclysmic events yet to transpire .