The UPCI Needs a Healer

[Barb]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Barb, I believe that's what many have been trying to say here -- - this isn't over Res. 4. I believe it's been in the works for a while and there are other reasons for the divide.

Also, as long as those "other reasons" are around, what is taking place might be the best solution. There was division already there, just not a physical divide.

*sigh* Still breaks my heart...

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Barb

*sigh* Still breaks my heart...

Look at it this way "Divide and Conquer"!!

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Barb

I know y'all may think I'm silly, but this breaks my heart...dividing over television just makes no sense.

My brother is a UPCI pastor, and yesterday made this observation...

He said that some are 'afraid' that with the passing of Res 4, there will be a breakdown of everything else...advertise on TV and makeup and cut hair will prevail!!

But he reminded me that we have a brother who is a member of a church in IN and they are ALJC...the pastor is a part of this board, though he doesn't post much.

Jim said that the ALJC doesn't take a hard stand against TV, and then asked re the church our brother attends, "Have you ever seen anything in their church any different than in the UPCI?!" Nope, I haven't...

He then said that he recently did the media work (DVD and CD recording) for an ALJC function, and the hair and dress reminded him of the UPCI in the 70s and 80s.

Doesn't sound like television has caused them to be carnally minded...

This makes perfect sense.

However, this is a monster of our own making, Barb. How many times have you heard the statement "When you let down on ONE standard, the rest will automatically follow, along with the doctrine"?

We've pounded that into our people for so long that they're afraid to PROGRESS!

In many people's minds CHANGE = COMPROMISE = CHARISMATIC.

We've conditioned them for so long "not to move the old landmarks" that they can't differentiate between "Old landmarks" and "old roadblocks".

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I would certainly hate to be the pastor who pastors a church of 100 in a city of 100,000 and have to explain to God why he fought so hard to keep another Apostolic pastor from starting a church in "his" city.

I would certainly hate to be the pastor who has to stand before God and explain why he wouldn't let a God-called evangelist preach in the church he was pastoring who could have preached a message that would reach souls, all because he didn't like the color of the man's shirt.

I would certainly hate to be the District Official who voted "no" to let a man go into a city and start a church because the official had a friend who pastored nearby who was threatened by the prospective pastor's ministry.

I would hate to be those also, (so I have purposed to not do those things). Let me add one more to this list:

I would certainly hate to be the preacher who stands before God and had preached a compromised, watered-down message.

Not trying to fight, just adding another person I wouldn't want to be. Not insinuating you do this MP, I have never heard you preach, (loved the thought about the devil's voice raising and saying, "Leave me alone" you posted on here somewhere, though).

I'm not saying, I'm just saying, that's all.

[Felicity]

In regard to Renda's post about the preaching she's hearing lately in her own church ........ (I've heard it for many years. lol. ) ....

My DIL made an interesting comment the other day. We were sitting in the car talking about the changes taking place in their own lives. They're moving back home. My son is taking a full time ministry position in a church there so I was asking her how she felt about it.

She said that she wasn't all that excited about "ministry" as we think of it and as it's done in the church. She said that her dad was never a pastor, a preacher or a "minister" per se, but that he was a soul winner. That he'd always been a soul winner and a great personal witness and won a number of people to the Lord over the years.

She said that as far as she was concerned you could be a minister and a soul winner without having the "office" of pastor or youth pastor or preacher or whatever. She had a good point.

We get so caught up in all the machinery and politics of denominationalism and even "church" that we lose focus so many times on the main thing. Not saying that we don't need "organization" and pastors, preachers, and other kinds of ministers but I'm afraid that there's a great deal of frustration sometimes because what the focus should be gets lost in all the foolishness that goes on.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by irish1

I would hate to be those also, (so I have purposed to not do those things). Let me add one more to this list:

I would certainly hate to be the preacher who stands before God and had preached a compromised, watered-down message.

Not trying to fight, just adding another person I wouldn't want to be. Not insinuating you do this MP, I have never heard you preach, (loved the thought about the devil's voice raising and saying, "Leave me alone" you posted on here somewhere, though).

I'm not saying, I'm just saying, that's all.

Obviously, there is some connection in your mind that made you mention "compromise" on this thread. I'm assuming that you consider advertising on television "compromise" and the man who advertises on TV is preaching a watered down message?

Or did I make the wrong leap?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

This makes perfect sense.

However, this is a monster of our own making, Barb. How many times have you heard the statement "When you let down on ONE standard, the rest will automatically follow, along with the doctrine"?

We've pounded that into our people for so long that they're afraid to PROGRESS!

In many people's minds CHANGE = COMPROMISE = CHARISMATIC.

We've conditioned them for so long "not to move the old landmarks" that they can't differentiate between "Old landmarks" and "old roadblocks".

Yes, I have heard it and once believed it...

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Felicity

In regard to Renda's post about the preaching she's hearing lately in her own church ........ (I've heard it for many years. lol. ) ....

My DIL made an interesting comment the other day. We were sitting in the car talking about the changes taking place in their own lives. They're moving back home. My son is taking a full time ministry position in a church there so I was asking her how she felt about it.

She said that she wasn't all that excited about "ministry" as we think of it and as it's done in the church. She said that her dad was never a pastor, a preacher or a "minister" per se, but that he was a soul winner. That he'd always been a soul winner and a great personal witness and won a number of people to the Lord over the years.

She said that as far as she was concerned you could be a minister and a soul winner without having the "office" of pastor or youth pastor or preacher or whatever. She had a good point.

We get so caught up in all the machinery and politics of denominationalism and even "church" that we lose focus so many times on the main thing. Not saying that we don't need "organization" and pastors, preachers, and other kinds of ministers but I'm afraid that there's a great deal of frustration sometimes because what the focus should be gets lost in all the foolishness that goes on.

This is so true...how many times have I been focused on things and events around me, instead of focusing on glory?!

Some things to think about as I head on out to church today...

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Barb

Yes, I have heard it and once believed it...

So did I, Barb.

When we were younger, and questioned things, in most cases, those things weren't explained, we were just given the old "Because it's against our religion, or the pastor says do it, so we do" speech.

But, because we never understood the principles behind the rules, we didn't know how to differentiate.

I'm reminded of Bro. Tenney's illustration of the Great Wall of China. It's the only man-made edifice that astronauts can see from the moon without the aid of a telescope. It's an impressive wall, over 2000 miles long, from what I can remember. Took hundreds of years to build. And it was built for one purpose - to keep invading armies out. But, within the first 100 years after it's completion, the Huns invaded China three times. Do you know how they did it? They didn't climb over it, or tunnel under it.

THEY BRIBED THE GATEKEEPERS!

The Chinese had spent so much time building a wall that they forgot to instruct the following generations as to why the wall was there! And when the reward got high enough, the gatekeepers sold out.

It's ok to build walls, but more important, we need to understand why the walls are there!

There may be a time when those walls can come down, and greater methods can be utilized.

Our problem is that we don't recognize which walls are for a season, and which ones are for eternity.

[Pastor G]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

So did I, Barb.

When we were younger, and questioned things, in most cases, those things weren't explained, we were just given the old "Because it's against our religion, or the pastor says do it, so we do" speech.

But, because we never understood the principles behind the rules, we didn't know how to differentiate.

I'm reminded of Bro. Tenney's illustration of the Great Wall of China. It's the only man-made edifice that astronauts can see from the moon without the aid of a telescope. It's an impressive wall, over 2000 miles long, from what I can remember. Took hundreds of years to build. And it was built for one purpose - to keep invading armies out. But, within the first 100 years after it's completion, the Huns invaded China three times. Do you know how they did it? They didn't climb over it, or tunnel under it.

THEY BRIBED THE GATEKEEPERS!

The Chinese had spent so much time building a wall that they forgot to instruct the following generations as to why the wall was there! And when the reward got high enough, the gatekeepers sold out.

It's ok to build walls, but more important, we need to understand why the walls are there!

There may be a time when those walls can come down, and greater methods can be utilized.

Our problem is that we don't recognize which walls are for a season, and which ones are for eternity.

Mike - why don't you just go on and preach a bit... Amen Bro. I am with you all the way..