The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[OneAccord]

In carse it was missed, can anyone answer the following....

Originally Posted by OneAccord

A person attends a UPC church and hears, and reponds to, the Gospel and repents of their sins and is to be baptized on Sunday. He is tragically killed in a car accident on Friday night. He he lost?

A woman repents of her sins in an ALJC church and is baptized according to Acts 2:38. She has not yet recieved the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Is she lost?

A man repents and is baptized according to Acts 2:38, and recieves the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues, but believe that forgiveness of sins in obtained through repentance. Is he lost?


They say silence is golden. But its also a form of deception. If you believe these persons are lost, then say it. We take pride in the fact that we are bold and secure in our beliefs. Are these people lost?

My answer? No, No. No.

[Brett Prince]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Yes, I am younger and better looking!

Well...younger for sure. Better looking? Sure ain't saying much. It's like choosing which end to look at on a donkey!

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I don't think you come across as judgmental, PP, but I think we can all agree to disagree without calling people backsliders just because they have a different view.

As to point number 1.--I don't believe the way I did once, you are right on that. I was raised to be judgemental and I didn't even understand God's grace. I believed whatever was taught to me as a child without ever searching the Word for myself. I took on everything ANYONE preached against and quit doing it, just because I wanted so badly to be right and I just thought that men of God knew everything. I found out that they are fallible too, and that you have to work out your own salavation. I am much more secure in Christ that I used to be. I used to go to bed at night scared that the Rapture would happen, and I would be lost, just because I wasn't yet good enough (and that was AFTER we were in ministry).

As for #2--I would never slam your doctrine. I love what UPC stands for, and what they did for me in my life, in bringing me to the Lord. I don't disrespect anyone for what they believe. The difference is that I would never call them unsaved or backslidden just because they differ from me. I think that anyone who pushes some kind of "belief only" doctrine only wants an easy route to heaven and they don't really seek to please God. However, saying that, I don't know anyone on this forum who would fit in that slot.

I am 'PAJC' in doctrine and still UPCI in affiliation, yet I can identify with much in this post...

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Felicity

There are times to get the guns out and start using them. LOL!

But I got to go to work .... .... wish I could stay and discuss this more. There's more that could and should be said.

Go get 'em, girl!!

[Barb]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Backslider to me is someone who turns their back on GOD.

I think this has been a great discussion. Probably won't change anyone's mind and I'm not sure anyone is even trying to do that, but it's been a good exchange.

I agree with both statements...

[SDG]

One Accord ... of course they're saved ... I got one ....

If Christ enters our lives at repentance and confession,

Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

Be earnest, therefore, and repent. " '"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, (then) I will enter his house and dine with him, and he with me.

and I believe in the Oneness of God [which I do] ....

Does this mean that another person of the Godhead enters my heart when I receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost? Does this fit with our commonly held Oneness view of God?

These are questions to ponder. Do I pretend to have all the answers, no. But to discount and condemn divergent views simply because it doesn't fit our model is not fair.

The perspective might be different but the end results are the same.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Goss felt the Baptists would be saved ...

Howard Goss told Carl Ballestero at a camp meeting in Indiana that "even the Baptists will be in the Bride of Christ."

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

One Accord ... of course they're saved ... I got one ....

If Christ enters our lives at repentance and confession,

Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

Be earnest, therefore, and repent. " '"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, (then) I will enter his house and dine with him, and he with me.

and I believe in the Oneness of God [which I do] ....

Does this mean that another person of the Godhead enters my heart when I receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost? Does this fit with our commonly held Oneness view of God?

These are questions to ponder. Do I pretend to have all the answers, no. But to discount and condemn divergent views simply because it doesn't fit our model is not fair.

The perspective might be different but the end results are the same.

So now you are questioning the Oneness of God?

I guess the slippery slope theory is really true.

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

A person attends a UPC church and hears, and reponds to, the Gospel and repents of their sins and is to be baptized on Sunday. He is tragically killed in a car accident on Friday night. He he lost?

Answer: Yes, but this has never happened and more than likely never will 1Peter 3:21 says that in like manner, baptism does now also save us. Mark 16:16 says the he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. So, that person is lost.

Originally Posted by OneAccord

A woman repents of her sins in an ALJC church and is baptized according to Acts 2:38. She has not yet recieved the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Is she lost?

Yes, because the sign given through the Acts of the Apostles that someone has received the Holy Ghost is that they speak with tongues. Until she speaks with tongues, just as they did at Pentecost, she is lost.

Originally Posted by OneAccord

A man repents and is baptized according to Acts 2:38, and recieves the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues, but believe that forgiveness of sins in obtained through repentance. Is he lost?

Answer: No. He has obeyed the Gospel. Misunderstanding the Gospel does not negate his faith that his sins have been washed away. His obedience to the Gospel is sufficient. Now, he can be discipled about how repentance does not save, but that baptism is where sins are remitted.

OK, I answered truthfully.

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Sam

Howard Goss told Carl Ballestero at a camp meeting in Indiana that "even the Baptists will be in the Bride of Christ."

Then he was wrong.