Trying to Rescue Another from HMH Doctrine

[acerrak]

Im curious Jay how is a person supposed to eat? except for acts 15 is there anything else to add to that? Really church and jewish traditions blended together. the church was being born out of judaism and the gentiles was comming. eventually 70 a.d. brought freedom for the church as it was still being some what griped by traditions.

early church history shows many traditions many different doctrines. Because the traditions was falling away. and new ones started to begin.

Yes there is princibles that do not change, but customs do change. One must decipher the difference of the two.

The early church lived in persecution and was underground for many years. They hid, yet we have people that will call you a coward if you went into hiding today.

That is another thing that has changed is the mentality. The way people percieve things.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by acerrak

well at one time the upci was open to support both one step and 3 step views.

That being said they had no specific doctrine like they do today about the three steps to salvation. what they did have was the ability for oneness Believer from the pci who merged with the PoJc to be able to preach and entertain both sides of their view. until in that past few decades has that changed and the pci view was pushed ou.

standards in the a similar way have been introduced by various people comming into the movement. And over time. So if you was to look back you would find short haired women in jewlery etc etc. so standards are a progressive thing that has come about mixed with traditions and sometimes from the dictatorship of some pastors.

In my opinion:
What began as a gentlemen's agreement in 1945 to bring brethren together even with their various beliefs on the "plan" of salvation and outward superficial dress code has degraded to a hostile takeover by narrow minded and mean spirited individuals.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Sam

In my opinion:
What began as a gentlemen's agreement in 1945 to bring brethren together even with their various beliefs on the "plan" of salvation and outward superficial dress code has degraded to a hostile takeover by narrow minded and mean spirited individuals.

i dont even think most people even know that there was a merger. its sorta hard to find info on it and history of such things are never spoken about it.

i remember talking to my former upci pastor about it, I was met with a smile and sure sure, but nothing of a definate answer. to him i was back peddling.

i agree with jay they shouldnt haver never had merged but stayed independant

[returnman]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The only prayer God hears a bobbed hair woman pray is when she is repenting. And to teach women can cut their hair is reserving your place in the lake of fire.
There will be no bobbed hair women in the Bride.

You folks claiming only faith in the blood saves are you saying folks can have faith in the blood and be a murderer or child molester and be saved?

Sound more like a bunch of Baptists and Apostolics.

I just had to smile and think......elder still "holdin her down"

[Jay]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Just wait until he isn't in as cheerful of a mood! LOL

Seriously though, fashions, styles, and cultures change. I can most assuredly say that the same "standards" commonly held by OP's is NOT the same today (or the past 50 years) as it was during the church's beginning or for about about 1900 years after.

Jewelry, theater (granted one moves away from the Biblical era a little for that but it remains relevant due to the principle), immodest apparel, cross dressing, homosexuality, immoral entertainment, etc. have all been preached against from the beginning and it is not that hard to find that these things among many others have been preached against. Research is the answer, and willingness the key.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by acerrak

Im curious Jay how is a person supposed to eat? except for acts 15 is there anything else to add to that? Really church and jewish traditions blended together. the church was being born out of judaism and the gentiles was comming. eventually 70 a.d. brought freedom for the church as it was still being some what griped by traditions.

early church history shows many traditions many different doctrines. Because the traditions was falling away. and new ones started to begin.

Yes there is princibles that do not change, but customs do change. One must decipher the difference of the two.

The early church lived in persecution and was underground for many years. They hid, yet we have people that will call you a coward if you went into hiding today.

That is another thing that has changed is the mentality. The way people percieve things.

When the Bible okays a difference between Jews and Gentiles, then and only then does the accepted behavior change (days of worship, circumcision, and the types of animals permitted for food). Anything else that was not changed, did not and will not change.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Jay

You can say what you will, but it remains the truth whether it is popular or not to believe it. The laws of God (even to the seemingly most insignificant) are to be followed and obeyed. This means taking great care in how a person dresses, eats, walks, speaks, and acts. This will also govern where, when, how, and why they go or do not go certain places, do or do not do certain things, wear or refrain from wearing certain things, etc. This has ceased to be taught, but at one time these teaching were universal, even among people who had very different theological view points.

However, it is difficult to hold a rational conversation with a spirit of compromise as all that is accomplished is being on the receiving end of vicious name calling and derogatory remarks.

You stated that legalism (I'm calling it for what it is) was preached from the Apostles to today. Well, maybe you are right. Legalists have always been around. Paul had to fight those devils all the time.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by houston

You stated that legalism (I'm calling it for what it is) was preached from the Apostles to the formation of the denominations. Well, maybe you are right. Legalists have always been around. Paul had to fight those devils all the time.

It is not legalism, especially if it is something that can be verified by the Word, and is actually livable. You accuse me of living a legalistic life, but yet as you have never met myself or my family who live like this, you truly do not know if I am a legalist or actually living what I teach. Therein would lie the tale.

[returnman]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

And YOU not her Pastor has been carrying a burden for her all these years. YOU not her Pastor has been there through all her ups and downs. YOU not her Pastor has prayed for her and instructed her. Maybe YOU should pastor somewhere art a church that is NOT Apostolic unless things have changed do not attend an Apostolic church.

I'll gaurentee that every pastor in this constinguency believes that he holds the keys to all of the saints salvation in his church and if anyone should dare leave over a difference that none his pastor friends within 1000 miles would welcome them. CONTROL is the foundation.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Jay

It is not legalism, especially if it is something that can be verified by the Word, and is actually livable. You accuse me of living a legalistic life, but yet as you have never met myself or my family who live like this, you truly do not know if I am a legalist or actually living what I teach. Therein would lie the tale.

It's NOT verified by the word. Ya'll living like in a fairytale.... Rapunzel... or something to that affect. I know the basic fundamental junk that "conservatives" believe. Nothing but misinterpretations and extrapolations of the scripture. Reading ya'lls posts is as painful as when the teacher scratches the chalkboard with her nails.