Mooney Guns for "Secret" Meeting in Detroit?

[timlan2057]

Question:

What's all this with Mooney being the drama queen going on about "thieves," "reprobates," "apostates," and such?

I thought the 1992 Resolution by Westberg and Company was supposed to forever eliminate this apostacy from the UPC.

What??

You mean you CAN'T legislate men's thoughts by having them sign a piece of paper??

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

Question:

What's all this with Mooney being the drama queen going on about "thieves," "reprobates," "apostates," and such?

I thought the 1992 Resolution by Westberg and Company was supposed to forever eliminate this apostacy from the UPC.

What??

You mean you CAN'T legislate men's thoughts by having them sign a piece of paper??

I don't think the intent for most was to legislate our thoughts by signing the "declaration of uniformity", rather we were signing our own death warrant. This was legal proof that the organization had the right to cleanse the race, so to speak........and before the affirmation, one may be able to wiggle out of a so called transgression, like television in the garage, by saying "Well, I wasn't really sure what TV in the home meant", or "I was confused when I got my license", etc.......now, just on the off chance one of these rogues decided to make an issue of it, his signature is on file stating that he will abide by all the rules all the time, no exceptions. So, now he has no leg upon which to stand when the powers that be elimated him from Hazelwoods Book of Life.



At least that was my take on it.........

[Barb]

Though I have resolved to bow out of posting, and rarely lurk anymore, the discussion of the ‘Plano Meeting’, and the previous meeting have caused me to briefly return.

There was MUCH discussion last year regarding the meeting held in Auburn Hills. I will speak to that first, as this is my home church and Brother Steve Warman is my pastor…

Prior to changing our membership in late August of last year, my mother and I spoke with Bro. & Sis. Warman, specifically to answer our questions regarding the rumor mill. Along with what I had read here, we had heard The Apostolic Church of Auburn Hills as being “charismatic” and “liberal.”

So, being folks who believe in going to the source if we have a question, we went DIRECTLY to them. We spoke about 2 specific points…the meeting, and the teaching of this particular assembly.

I will not reveal the contents of our conversation, other than, do not believe every negative thing you have heard.

That is all I will say about it…

For those with questions regarding the meeting, or the upcoming meeting, I'm certain Brother W would welcome your call or visit in PERSON…receiving FIRST HAND information is always the better way to go, wouldn’t y’all agree?

Church phone:

248-373-4500

Second, this talk about the “libs” having a meeting…that those who attended the last one or will be attending the new meeting are “liberal” ministers is a matter of opinion, and certainly does not apply to my pastor.

Opinions and judgments of others is truly just a matter of one’s perspective. And unless one is in position to see and experience the teaching of a particular pastor, and know his heart and vision for the church where he labors, the rumbling from the cheap seats is suspect.

This morning I was sitting in the waiting room while my mom had a doctor’s appointment, and I read an article in Newsweek which was quite interesting.

It was an interview with former Senator Alan Simpson, Republican and co-chairman of President Obama's bipartisan commission for reducing the mounting federal debt.

He said he is receiving flak from Republicans that he is a turncoat because he is on this committee.

Senator Simpson said that engraved in the podium in the congressional hall is the word ‘Tolerance.’ He said that it is not something seen much today, not just in Congress, but anywhere.

I thought about that, and realized how true it is in the Church…

People have 2 words to throw at those with a differing view...tolerance and compromise.

Compromise is a word I strongly dislike, only because of the way it is used today. It conjures up visions of people “selling the farm,” and being “soft on the message,” and all of the other clichés we can think of.

However, the word means the settlement of a disagreement by mutual concession. That would be the ground the UNITED Pentecostal Church, International was founded on, folks...the concession being that they would not contend for the differing views to the disunity of the body.

Unfortunately, we have those who say the merger never should have taken place...that the differences were too great and the organization was built on compromise...

So let me get this straight...if we take compromise the way it is thought of today, instead of viewing the UPCI as being built on a rock, we see the foundation was built on sand.

If the foundation was shaky, than it was doomed to fall.

Let's forget about all of the people saved from a devil's hell, and the miracles, and the great and mighty men and women of God who have preached and taught the Word.

It was all for naught because the handwriting was on the wall from jump.

Or was it?

Compromise, as it is defined in the dictionary, brought about a great Apostolic body of believers, who worked hand in hand for Kingdom sake.

Now it's a dirty word...amazing.

Tolerance means forbearance, indulgence, patience, sufferance, acceptance, understanding, an allowable variation in any measurable property.

Folks don't like tolerant Apostolics either...

They think acceptance means to condone sin, but that's not what it is at all.

It simply means acceptance of the possibiltyof a different view. It seems to me that this was the heart and mind of the merger, that monumental event so many are willing to cast aside like a worn out shoe.

And so we have men who preach less than what we deem is acceptable…tell me, please, sir and madam…do you fellowship or cutoff those who preach more than you deem necessary? Have those with more cut you off and cast you to the four winds as being ‘ a compromising liberal’?

See folks…we can’t cut this pie one way. This all a matter of perspective.

This salvation thing is not about you or me. It is about the Lord God Almighty. He and He alone will do the separating, and He alone is worthy to judge.

You have to understand that His judgment is a righteous judgment. We judge according to our personal convictions, and whether folks have ruffled our feathers in not following our agenda.

Someone can be on our A list and drop to Z before the sun sets this evening. And for what? Because we heard something, or because we think we know something?

God doesn’t judge that way. He does not follow whim and fad. He is not influenced by the rumor mill. The Lord does not see ‘Emergent Church’ around every corner.

My 79 year old momma said this morning, “What happened to the days when we just went to church?”

Today we are so busy looking at someone else and what they are, or are not doing.

Wonder what God thinks about all this? Wonder if it grieves His Spirit as much as it grieves some of us?

Just a final word, and I‘m done…

For those who see ‘libs’ behind every tree, I can’t speak for any pastor except my own…

If folks think he’s a liberal as in loosey-goosey, greasy-grace, lax, relaxed, and permissive…to quote Bro. Epley, “They are as wrong as 2 boys kissing!”

But if you mean liberal, as in bountiful, generous, openhearted, openhanded, giving, charitable, fair, unbiased, tolerant, you would be correct.

I do not know if my pastor or any of our elders are attending this meeting, but if they are, that is their choice. I trust them enough to trust they know what is best.

Now I am done…

[rgcraig]

I think the term "libs" used here just means non-traditional UPC.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I think the term "libs" used here just means non-traditional UPC.

The words liberal and libs were used in conjunction with those who attended the meeting of last year. My point was to show that the word as we normally use it does not apply across the board.

And what exactly are non-traditional UPCers?

I think I know what you mean, but you see how it is...it's that old perspective thing again. People may be termed non-traditional UPC simply because they question a thing or hold to another view.

[Aquila]

The UPCI, at this moment, appears to be a den of vipers and the organization uses it's political power to control and manipulate ministers, forcing them to preach and embrace legalistic doctrines of men.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The UPCI, at this moment, appears to be a den of vipers and the organization uses it's political power to control and manipulate ministers, forcing them to preach and embrace legalistic doctrines of men.

Wow! Why hold back...just come out and tell us what you really think!

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Barb

The words liberal and libs were used in conjunction with those who attended the meeting of last year. My point was to show that the word as we normally use it does not apply across the board.

And what exactly are non-traditional UPCers?

I think I know what you mean, but you see how it is...it's that old perspective thing again. People may be termed non-traditional UPC simply because they question a thing or hold to another view.

Those who question or deny the UPC's "Holiness Standards".

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Justin

Those who question or deny the UPC's "Holiness Standards".

But again...this does not compute if those referred to as non-traditional include my home church or pastor.

And from viewing the POA Web casts, I don't see it there or sense it isn't taught there.

So I don't get it...

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Justin

Those who question or deny the UPC's "Holiness Standards".

Or

Those who cannot with a clear conscience sign the AF requiring that they teach/support what is listed.