Question about Acts 2:38: What about the martyrs?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i would have gladly ignored it, but EB kept bumping it? Apply the Bible to yourself, sometime. Goodbye.

I kept bumping it because you kept ignoring it, and refused to answer the question in the post. Sheepsleep do you understand that you are judging us? Oh, yes, you said that, and qualified it with "your not perfect" clause. Goodbye?

What does GOODBYE mean to you?

Because you post those words but yet continue to beat your head against the wall in this thread?

Are you a .....

[Ferd]

Since this is a trainwreck I bet a lot of others who aren't posting are reading

so let me restate something here...


Islam is "another gospel"

It is directly in line with the thing Paul said "let them be anathema"

It isn't simply something wrong like say Hindu or Buddism. etc.

Muslim perports itself to be a religion of the One True God, and that Jesus one of its prophets. BUT Islam denies the deity of Jesus. Islam is uniquely deserving of attention by Christians. because they make a claim that Paul directly and quite harshly deals with.

"IF I or anyone else comes to you with any other gospel other than the one we have already brought you, let him be anathema"

That's pretty clear.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Since this is a trainwreck I bet a lot of others who aren't posting are reading

so let me restate something here...


Islam is "another gospel"

It is directly in line with the thing Paul said "let them be anathema"

It isn't simply something wrong like say Hindu or Buddism. etc.

Muslim perports itself to be a religion of the One True God, and that Jesus one of its prophets. BUT Islam denies the deity of Jesus. Islam is uniquely deserving of attention by Christians. because they make a claim that Paul directly and quite harshly deals with.

"IF I or anyone else comes to you with any other gospel other than the one we have already brought you, let him be anathema"

That's pretty clear.

[mfblume]

The errors abound in this response below.

Originally Posted by shazeep

Samaritans, as you may know, were the vilified of their day; "Good" Samaritan would have been reckoned an oxymoron. Yet Christ held out this GS over the priest and the prophet on the road, telling us "Go and do likewise."

It was a priest and Levite first of all. No prophet is mentioned.

And the priest and Levite thought themselves better than stopping to help the beaten man. This is exactly what we're saying. Grace teaches we cannot be better than anyone because it's not of works, contrary to muslim faith, that anyone is saved.

And what Jesus meant was that we must be kind to everyone. But your error is thinking kindness forbids us from saying the bible is true when it says salvation cannot be by works and those who do not bow to Christ will perish. You have a WEIRD kindness. It overlooks plain scripture . And who knows where you got the idea that telling truth means one is unkind. Truth can be spoken unkindly, to be sure. But it can also be spoken kindly with no offence intended. You seem to think you're God who knows intentions, because we say muslims are lost since their doctrine is part and parcel with salvation by works, and the bible says that belief sends a soul to hell. You think you know our hearts. You vaunt yourself up like God who alone knows the heart.

Otherwise you must think Paul is lost because he said salvation is not of works lest any man should boast.

So, one can be kind and yet still believe those who practice salvation by works are lost.

Do you not believe those who practice salvation by works are lost like Paul said? (Watch the lack of an answer to this one!)

But the GS did not have Acts 2:38, and would not have agreed with the priest's nor the prophet's dogma.

Again, the priests and the levite's dogma. Acts 2:38 has nothing to do with the issue. The parable is not about how to be saved. But it is about how to act AFTER YOU ARE SAVED. But we said that, and you brushed that beneath the carpet.

Many, or most, Pentecostals--prolly the same % as the # of Americans--would be comfortable with saying "All Muslims are lost," despite the many parables that suggest otherwise,

So parables teach salvation by works does not mean you're lost????? Please list them! List the parables that teach Paul was wrong when he said salvation is not by works, for that is the issue whether you want to look past it or not.

and the direct admonition from God to not judge foreigners. A similar question is shown in the First Son of the vineyard owner, and in other parables.

For the millionth time, we're not judging anyone. they're already condemned because they believe not, and because Paul said salvation is not of works. And by the way, its not foreigners that are the issue at hand, but Muslims. People of false faith and false prophecy and dogma/doctrine. Foreigners? That's insane. You do not believe North Americans can be and are MUSLIMS? Now THAT is racist.

So, with at least several passages that indicate that "You do not know everything about salvation,"

Here is the real red flag and siren of danger. We do not know everything about salvation.
That IMPLIES people can be saved even though they practice salvation by works! Deny it all you want, but you are saying that. If you're not, then why apply the idea that you believe we don't know everything about salvation to the people who adhere to a doctrine of salvation by works? That's the issue, but you refuse a thousand times to admit it. It's not foreigners we're against. We're against DOCTRINES that teach salvation by works. And there are AMERICAN MUSLIMS who are lost because they believe in salvation by works. But you seem to think Muslims are only foreigners, so when we say muslims are lost, because they patently practice salvation by works which the bible plainly condemns, you say we aren't being kind to foreigners.

Anyway, this idea that we don't know everything about salvation implies someone who faithfully and heart-intentionally believes they're nothing, and without the work of the cross they'd be less than nothing, and adheres to salvation by the work of Christ on the cross and not their own works CANNOT KNOW THEY'RE SAVED, while there is a chance a muslim who practices salvation by works, the doctrine condemned plainly in the bible, MIGHT BE SAVED. That's the most watered down, carnal and worldly doctrine of nonsense I've come across aside from pure universalism.

how is it that anyone who purports to be following Christ might be comfortable saying "All _________ are lost?"

...because Christy's word says those who believe salvation by works are lost, and we believe Christ's words.

But don't be fooled that anyone forgot the question or anything; that is just part of the answer, along with the belittling, and name calling, scoffing, etc. I don't even blame anyone--i grew up with All Muslims Are Lost, and i get how it is passed off as "we say this because we love them" or whatever.

Evidently you never thought of saying it because THE BIBLE SAYS IT.

It is very hard to see how "All Muslims Are Lost" justifies droning foreign weddings, etc. i guess

There's the foreign racist comment again as if Muslims cannot include Canadians and Americans.

Ooooookay! (phew)

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No, it doesn't. So, now we know how you also view scripture. It doesn't matter what the Bible actually says, it just matters what YOU feel it is saying? The meme specifically is making a statement that White Christians "Evangelicals" are against non-whites and homosexuals. You took that meme and posted it here, for anyone who disagreed with you. So, now, you are saying that the meme is for anyone who feels qualified to judge another? Sorry, but even the creator of the meme would shake his head with a NO. Shasleep you are a troll.

well, if the meme bothers you, maybe you should take a look at that? I mean, I'm protestant, white, and it doesn't bother me...it seems like you are avoiding the subject, wadr.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Ferd

LOL...

I don't think anyone here who has been around more than 15 minutes thinks im likely to run for the shadows.

from time to time however, I will walk away from someone who has not capacity to be reasoned with.


hahahahaha

hey, you don't have to reason with me; just reply to "is the GS saved?"

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I kept bumping it because you kept ignoring it, and refused to answer the question in the post. Sheepsleep do you understand that you are judging us? Oh, yes, you said that, and qualified it with "your not perfect" clause. Goodbye?

What does GOODBYE mean to you?

Because you post those words but yet continue to beat your head against the wall in this thread?

Are you a .....

oh--um, "I'm not judging you; the Bible is judging you!"
but seriously, God Himself came down and told you not to judge foreigners; do what you want, EB.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The errors abound in this response below.



It was a priest and Levite first of all. No prophet is mentioned.

And the priest and Levite thought themselves better than stopping to help the beaten man. This is exactly what we're saying. Grace teaches we cannot be better than anyone because it's not of works, contrary to muslim faith, that anyone is saved.

And what Jesus meant was that we must be kind to everyone. But your error is thinking kindness forbids us from saying the bible is true when it says salvation cannot be by works and those who do not bow to Christ will perish. You have a WEIRD kindness. It overlooks plain scripture . And who knows where you got the idea that telling truth means one is unkind. Truth can be spoken unkindly, to be sure. But it can also be spoken kindly with no offence intended. You seem to think you're God who knows intentions, because we say muslims are lost since their doctrine is part and parcel with salvation by works, and the bible says that belief sends a soul to hell. You think you know our hearts. You vaunt yourself up like God who alone knows the heart.

Otherwise you must think Paul is lost because he said salvation is not of works lest any man should boast.

So, one can be kind and yet still believe those who practice salvation by works are lost.

Do you not believe those who practice salvation by works are lost like Paul said? (Watch the lack of an answer to this one!)



Again, the priests and the levite's dogma. Acts 2:38 has nothing to do with the issue. The parable is not about how to be saved. But it is about how to act AFTER YOU ARE SAVED. But we said that, and you brushed that beneath the carpet.



So parables teach salvation by works does not mean you're lost????? Please list them! List the parables that teach Paul was wrong when he said salvation is not by works, for that is the issue whether you want to look past it or not.


For the millionth time, we're not judging anyone. they're already condemned because they believe not, and because Paul said salvation is not of works. And by the way, its not foreigners that are the issue at hand, but Muslims. People of false faith and false prophecy and dogma/doctrine. Foreigners? That's insane. You do not believe North Americans can be and are MUSLIMS? Now THAT is racist.


Here is the real red flag and siren of danger. We do not know everything about salvation.
That IMPLIES people can be saved even though they practice salvation by works! Deny it all you want, but you are saying that. If you're not, then why apply the idea that you believe we don't know everything about salvation to the people who adhere to a doctrine of salvation by works? That's the issue, but you refuse a thousand times to admit it. It's not foreigners we're against. We're against DOCTRINES that teach salvation by works. And there are AMERICAN MUSLIMS who are lost because they believe in salvation by works. But you seem to think Muslims are only foreigners, so when we say muslims are lost, because they patently practice salvation by works which the bible plainly condemns, you say we aren't being kind to foreigners.

Anyway, this idea that we don't know everything about salvation implies someone who faithfully and heart-intentionally believes they're nothing, and without the work of the cross they'd be less than nothing, and adheres to salvation by the work of Christ on the cross and not their own works CANNOT KNOW THEY'RE SAVED, while there is a chance a muslim who practices salvation by works, the doctrine condemned plainly in the bible, MIGHT BE SAVED. That's the most watered down, carnal and worldly doctrine of nonsense I've come across aside from pure universalism.



...because Christy's word says those who believe salvation by works are lost, and we believe Christ's words.



Evidently you never thought of saying it because THE BIBLE SAYS IT.




There's the foreign racist comment again as if Muslims cannot include Canadians and Americans.

Ooooookay! (phew)

yes, i understand why you feel justified, Mike--but i can provide Scripture for an accepted Philistine, and one from God telling you not to judge foreigners, but you will still blithely insist that All Muslims Are Lost because the Bible says so--and never mind the consequences. And yes, there are domestic Muslims also, and i guess they are somewhat oppressed by you too; but at least they aren't getting droned. So, what is the point there, more obscuring, most likely.

Look, if you feel justified in saying that all Muslims are lost, who am i to try and change your mind? At least you are saying it, and not just secretly believing it, afraid to say it. "Do what thou wilt." But as i said, don't be surprised when you are called to account for the consequences, that's all.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, if the meme bothers you, maybe you should take a look at that? I mean, I'm protestant, white, and it doesn't bother me...it seems like you are avoiding the subject, wadr.

There no subject for me to avoid because the meme has nothing to do with me.

So, you posted a meme that means nothing to you?

Shazsleep this gif has something to do with YOU.

[Ferd]

So Shazeep, did Paul violate your principle when he said those that brought another gospel were damned?