Changing Denominations

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Rhoni, that's what this has been all about?

Listen, I know you are not going to like what I am going to say to you, but surely you are old enough and have enough experience in life to not let things like this blow you out of the water so far. Yes, what he said was wrong. I totally agree with you on that. But consider this. Your friend who you were living with will find out eventually exactly what this guy is. A skunk is a skunk, whether he has on silk pajamas or not. She'll see that. And when she does, she is going to need YOU to be her friend.

The gracious way for you to handle this is for you to calmly point out to her that your years of experience has taught you that this man is way over-board. Let her know that you are sharing that with her because you care about her, not because you want to tear him down. Then if you still need to leave, then leave. But leave on a friendly basis. As adults you can say to your friend that while you don't agree with her bowing to that pastor, it is still her decision. And that if and when the day comes that she decides not to, you will be there for her.

MAYBE God placed you in this woman's home just because He knows that down the road, He will need you to be His arms and feet to this lady. But He won't be able to use you for HIS purposes if you have burned your bridges by throwing a temper fit now.

Sometimes we have to CHOOSE to be the bigger person in order to be in a position for God to be able to use us.

Maybe I'm all wrong on this, but from my outsider's point of view, this is what I'm seeing.

Good post, Margie. In all honestly I do question this statement that Rhoni made about the pastor:

When I refused to sign a document of affirmation to support, obey, and honor the Pastor without questioning.

I'd have to see the form. Not trying to offend, Rhoni, but just reading it seems a little skewed from her point of view.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Rhoni, that's what this has been all about?

Listen, I know you are not going to like what I am going to say to you, but surely you are old enough and have enough experience in life to not let things like this blow you out of the water so far. Yes, what he said was wrong. I totally agree with you on that. But consider this. Your friend who you were living with will find out eventually exactly what this guy is. A skunk is a skunk, whether he has on silk pajamas or not. She'll see that. And when she does, she is going to need YOU to be her friend.

The gracious way for you to handle this is for you to calmly point out to her that your years of experience has taught you that this man is way over-board. Let her know that you are sharing that with her because you care about her, not because you want to tear him down. Then if you still need to leave, then leave. But leave on a friendly basis. As adults you can say to your friend that while you don't agree with her bowing to that pastor, it is still her decision. And that if and when the day comes that she decides not to, you will be there for her.

MAYBE God placed you in this woman's home just because He knows that down the road, He will need you to be His arms and feet to this lady. But He won't be able to use you for HIS purposes if you have burned your bridges by throwing a temper fit now.

Sometimes we have to CHOOSE to be the bigger person in order to be in a position for God to be able to use us.

Maybe I'm all wrong on this, but from my outsider's point of view, this is what I'm seeing.

Absolutely! I have told her that I care about her and will continue to pray for her but right now she doesn't have ears to hear. It makes me sad because she is a new convert and I would not have said anything to her about any of this. I actually told the Pastor that I would tell her it was my decision to accompany my mother to church as she has a long way to drive to go to her church and has cataracts...all of which is true. Instead of taking this as a way out for him to save face with her - He talked to her after service one night and told her how that I was a spirtual jezebel, would not submit and obey and would never be successful spiritually with this attitude. As she and her children [grown] discussed this over beer one night - I was in the bedroom and heard it all. The Pastor was so unwise to make her choose him...he even got the Chairman of that organization involved as a third party and now she says she supports her Pastor and his bishop and she has peace. I told her that when she gets further on her journey and realizes what has happened - just know that I have forgiven her and am praying for her.

There can be no congenial parting as the Pastor sowed mistrust and discord between us. I will be all right because this is just part of a long line of authoritarian people in my past, but she is just getting started on her journey...and we all know that those we 'idolize' will let us down.

The Pastor I am discussing has eyes on this forum and knows what is posted here...but that is all right - I have nothing to hide. As for him - he has much to learn being in a position of Pastor.

Thank you for the words of wisdom - I already knew this and have tried to leave on a good note but she avoids me like the plague and rarely are we home at the same time.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Good post, Margie. In all honestly I do question this statement that Rhoni made about the pastor:



I'd have to see the form. Not trying to offend, Rhoni, but just reading it seems a little skewed from her point of view.

Actually - his relatives were visiting on that Sunday and they were from two other churches, one which was UPCI. The form is real...unfortunately. His own family does not go to the church - only his wife's and a few others from a neighboring church that Amazing Grace used to go to.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Actually - his relatives were visiting on that Sunday and they were from two other churches, one which was UPCI. The form is real...unfortunately. His own family does not go to the church - only his wife's and a few others from a neighboring church that Amazing Grace used to go to.

Blessings, Rhoni

Then if that is true, I'm glad you left.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Then if that is true, I'm glad you left.

It is true and I really had no choice than to leave. It is a sad thing for all concerned.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

It is true and I really had no choice than to leave. It is a sad thing for all concerned.

Blessings, Rhoni

My first pastor was like that. Unfortunately, other things arose in his life and the organization took his license away.

[Margies3]

I can understand why you would leave. In all my years in the UPC I was never, ever asked to sign anything like that kind of form. I wouldn't really care what kind of church it was, if I was handed a form like that, I would be out the door as fast as my legs could carry me.

There's a part of me that truly feels sorry for men like this. Men who feel that they have to lead by force. Are they not confident enough in their God to just trust Him to do the work in people's hearts? They're shepherds. Not the owners of the sheep.

So yes, you are better off leaving this church. And I know that I am hardly the one to say this, since I don't attend an Apostolic church myself anymore. But don't judge all Apostolic churches by this man - or even by all of those in the past who were cut from the same cloth as this guy. NOT all Apostolic ministers are like this. In all the years I was UPC, I had 5 different pastors. Only one came even close to this. The rest were wonderful, sincere men of God who would have never "ruled with an iron fist".

I realize that your experience has not been as positive. And I am sorry for you in that regard. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I guess it kind of makes me think about how every now and then you hear about a teacher who sleeps with a student. YES, that is wrong!! But you can't dismiss all teachers just because SOME are idiots You have to understand that in Apostolic preachers, just as in all areas of life, there really are some BAD, bad eggs! But I truly believe that there are more good ones than there are bad ones.

If you choose to leave the Apostolic church, that's fine. You can do that. But walk away with a love in your heart. Not anger. Because the only one that anger is going to hurt in the long run is you. No one else. Just you.

Oh, and just fyi, let me tell you from experience, you can leave. But it will always be a part of who you are. There are parts of the Apostolic church (doctrine especially) that no one will ever convince me are wrong. And there are parts I will never agree with, too. And that's ok.

God bless you. I know this has been hard. Think how much harder it would have been if all these people here on AFF had not been praying for you.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Margies3

I can understand why you would leave. In all my years in the UPC I was never, ever asked to sign anything like that kind of form. I wouldn't really care what kind of church it was, if I was handed a form like that, I would be out the door as fast as my legs could carry me.

There's a part of me that truly feels sorry for men like this. Men who feel that they have to lead by force. Are they not confident enough in their God to just trust Him to do the work in people's hearts? They're shepherds. Not the owners of the sheep.

So yes, you are better off leaving this church. And I know that I am hardly the one to say this, since I don't attend an Apostolic church myself anymore. But don't judge all Apostolic churches by this man - or even by all of those in the past who were cut from the same cloth as this guy. NOT all Apostolic ministers are like this. In all the years I was UPC, I had 5 different pastors. Only one came even close to this. The rest were wonderful, sincere men of God who would have never "ruled with an iron fist".

I realize that your experience has not been as positive. And I am sorry for you in that regard. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I guess it kind of makes me think about how every now and then you hear about a teacher who sleeps with a student. YES, that is wrong!! But you can't dismiss all teachers just because SOME are idiots You have to understand that in Apostolic preachers, just as in all areas of life, there really are some BAD, bad eggs! But I truly believe that there are more good ones than there are bad ones.

If you choose to leave the Apostolic church, that's fine. You can do that. But walk away with a love in your heart. Not anger. Because the only one that anger is going to hurt in the long run is you. No one else. Just you.

Oh, and just fyi, let me tell you from experience, you can leave. But it will always be a part of who you are. There are parts of the Apostolic church (doctrine especially) that no one will ever convince me are wrong. And there are parts I will never agree with, too. And that's ok.

God bless you. I know this has been hard. Think how much harder it would have been if all these people here on AFF had not been praying for you.

Margie,

You know how sometimes what the devil means to hurt or destroy a person; God turns the tables on it and makes it for the best? Well, that is just what happened here.

This weekend I moved into a beautiful 1000 ft condo, all on one level, with a custom made office, and a large fireplace. The best thing about it is that it is 8 miles from my job. I have been commuting for two years and I am exhausted with the two hours of travel per day on top of an 8 hour job. 3 men from a local Apostolic church moved me in just a couple hours and did it free of charge.

***IT was such a blessing to sleep in an hour and half and drive 10 minutes to work.***

I just know that God is going to open the door to a church that is just where I need to be which will feed my soul and be a blessing and not a curse .

This is a year of new beginnings for me and a year of blessing and God knew just how to do it. I still love Jesus

Just thought you might like a good report!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Hoovie]

"sign a document of affirmation to support, obey, and honor the Pastor without questioning."

That would be tough, but it could be done. It would be much more closed atmosphere than what I would want.

Naturally though, the pastors would also need to sign such forms regarding the saints of the most high God they are privileged to pastor. I understand the wording would be different.

Something like, "I promise to never impugn, embarrass, or publicly humiliate the saints of the Most High. I pledge to give full accountability of church finances - with open books to all that contribute...."

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

"sign a document of affirmation to support, obey, and honor the Pastor without questioning."

That would be tough, but it could be done. It would be much more closed atmosphere than what I would want.

Naturally though, the pastors would also need to sign such forms regarding the saints of the most high God they are privileged to pastor. I understand the wording would be different.

Something like, "I promise to never impugn, embarrass, or publicly humiliate the saints of the Most High. I pledge to give full accountability of church finances - with open books to all that contribute...."

LOL..yeah - like that will ever happen. Those controlling Pastors are only controlled by the ID. They are subject to none!