Polygamy in the Bible

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dora

When I saw all the stuff going on with the Mormon polygamists, I googled information about the effects of polygamy on women and children to see whether or not it was detrimental emotionally, mentally, physically due to abuse, etc.

Couldn't find much about the negative effects.

Found lots of Pro-polygamy stuff.

There is a book written by a woman who escaped from an abusive polygamist sect where the prophet set his eyes on her and made her leave her husband in order to marry him. I'll look it up again. Sad situation.

The big issue with those groups is the kiddie/adult marriage thing.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I would not mind having a couple wives as long as the worked and supported me

Yes, never mind sending pictures... send me transcripts of your degrees!

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

I should have only responded to your post and then put my personal feelings after on another post so as not to make you think I was referring to you. Anyways give me proof that the previous verse is referring to married women when the verse explicitly says A woman. Let me show you where I get my proof for the following verse.

Excuse me? Now we interpret the Word of God according to modern day English? Here is the verse with the Strongs #s after each word. Following this is the Kings James Concordance with every instance of the word and its translation.

Jas 1:15 ThenG1534 when lustG1939 hath conceived,G4815 it bringeth forthG5088 sin:G266 andG1161 sin,G266 when it is finished,G658 bringeth forthG616 death.G2288


ep-ee-thoo-mee'-ah
From G1937; a longing (especially for what is forbidden): - concupiscence, desire, lust (after).


G1939
ἐπιθυμία
epithumia
Total KJV Occurrences: 38
lusts, 22
Mar_4:19, Joh_8:44, Rom_1:24, Rom_6:12, Rom_13:14, Gal_5:24, Eph_2:3, Eph_4:22, 1Ti_6:9, 2Ti_2:22, 2Ti_3:6, 2Ti_4:3, Tit_2:12, Tit_3:3, 1Pe_1:14, 1Pe_2:11, 1Pe_4:2-3 (2), 2Pe_2:18, 2Pe_3:3, Jud_1:16, Jud_1:18
lust, 9
Rom_7:7, Gal_5:16, Jam_1:14-15 (2), 2Pe_1:4, 2Pe_2:10, 1Jo_2:16-17 (3)
concupiscence, 3
Rom_7:8, Col_3:5, 1Th_4:5
desire, 3
Luk_22:15, Phi_1:23, 1Th_2:17
desired, 1
Mat_13:17 (2)


Not once is it translated covet!!!

G1937
ἐπιθυμέω
epithumeō
ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o
From G1909 and G2372; to set the heart upon, that is, long for (rightfully or otherwise): - covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).

You actually meant this word in Matthew 5:28 friend. Yes, I read the word covet in there out of Strongs.

Try again.

Mat 5:28 But1161 I1473 say3004 unto you,5213 That3754 whosoever3956 looketh991 on a woman1135 to lust1937 after her846 hath committed adultery3431 with her846 already2235 in1722 his848 heart.2588 (Using Strongs #s)

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Originally Posted by erikwebster

G1937
ἐπιθυμέω
epithumeō
ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o
From G1909 and G2372; to set the heart upon, that is, long for (rightfully or otherwise): - covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).

You actually meant this word in Matthew 5:28 friend. Yes, I read the word covet in there out of Strongs.

Try again.


Mat 5:28 But1161 I1473 say3004 unto you,5213 That3754 whosoever3956 looketh991 on a woman1135 to lust1937 after her846 hath committed adultery3431 with her846 already2235 in1722 his848 heart.2588 (Using Strongs #s)

Either way it does not make a difference it can be lust translated desire or covet depending on the context. Covet has to do with desire. This does not change the way we interpret A Woman to be a married woman. Where are the other sources to validate this claim. Every instance below of G1937 and two instances of where it is translated covet. It still has to do with lust. In this case desiring what does not belong to you.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Covet
To long after; to try to gain.

But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some COVETED after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. (1Ti_6:10)

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


Covet
COVET, v.t.

1. To desire or wish for, with eagerness; to desire earnestly to obtain or possess; in a good sense.

Covet earnestly the best gifts. 1 Cor 12.

2. To desire inordinately; to desire that which it is unlawful to obtain or possess; in a bad sense.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors house, wife or servant. Exo 20.

COVET, v.i. To have an earnest desire. 1 Tim 6.

Covet
kuv´et (אוה, 'āwāh; ζηλόω, zēlóō, “to desire earnestly,” “to set the heart and mind upon anything”): Used in two senses: good, simply to desire earnestly but legitimately. e.g. the King James Version 1Co_12:31; 1Co_14:39; bad, to desire unlawfully, or to secure illegitimately (בּצע, bāca‛; ἐπιθυμέω, epithuméō, Rom_7:7; Rom_13:9, etc.); hence, called “lust” (Mat_5:28; 1Co_10:6), “concupiscence” (the King James Version Rom_7:8; Col_3:5).

G1937
ἐπιθυμέω
epithumeō
Total KJV Occurrences: 16
desire, 4
Luk_17:22, Heb_6:11, 1Pe_1:12, Rev_9:6
covet, 2
Rom_7:6-7 (2), Rom_13:9
lust, 2
Mat_5:28, Jam_4:2
lusted, 2
1Co_10:6, Rev_18:14
coveted, 1
Act_20:33
desired, 1
Luk_22:15
desireth, 1
1Ti_3:1
desiring, 1
Luk_16:21
fain, 1
Luk_15:16
lusteth, 1
Gal_5:16-17 (2)

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Albert Barnes on Matthew 5.28

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


Adam Clarke comes closer to your sense of covet but does not still change the effect of impure desire.

Mat 5:28
Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her - Επιθυμησαι αυτην, earnestly to covet her. The verb, επιθυμεω, is undoubtedly used here by our Lord, in the sense of coveting through the influence of impure desire. The word is used in precisely the same sense, on the same subject, by Herodotus, book the first, near the end. I will give the passage, but I dare not translate it. To the learned reader it will justify my translation, and the unlearned must take my word. Της ΕΠΙΘΥΜΗΣΕΙ γυναικος Μασσαγετης ανηρ, μισγεται αδεως, Raphelius, on this verse, says, επιθυμειν hoc loco, est turpi cupiditate mulieris potiundae flagrare. In all these eases, our blessed Lord points out the spirituality of the law; which was a matter to which the Jews paid very little attention. Indeed it is the property of a Pharisee to abstain only from the outward crime. Men are very often less inquisitive to know how far the will of God extends, that they may please him in performing it, than they are to know how far they may satisfy their lusts without destroying their bodies and souls, utterly, by an open violation of his law.


How about Jamieson, Fausett, Brown

Mat 5:28
Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her - Επιθυμησαι αυτην, earnestly to covet her. The verb, επιθυμεω, is undoubtedly used here by our Lord, in the sense of coveting through the influence of impure desire. The word is used in precisely the same sense, on the same subject, by Herodotus, book the first, near the end. I will give the passage, but I dare not translate it. To the learned reader it will justify my translation, and the unlearned must take my word. Της ΕΠΙΘΥΜΗΣΕΙ γυναικος Μασσαγετης ανηρ, μισγεται αδεως, Raphelius, on this verse, says, επιθυμειν hoc loco, est turpi cupiditate mulieris potiundae flagrare. In all these eases, our blessed Lord points out the spirituality of the law; which was a matter to which the Jews paid very little attention. Indeed it is the property of a Pharisee to abstain only from the outward crime. Men are very often less inquisitive to know how far the will of God extends, that they may please him in performing it, than they are to know how far they may satisfy their lusts without destroying their bodies and souls, utterly, by an open violation of his law.

[Pastor DTSalaz]

The burden of proof lies in your court to prove contrary to most of the noted scholars. How is this dealing only with married women?

[Dora]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

So are you prepared to say Polyandry is a moral issue and forbidden under New Testament, while polygamy is not?

What is Polyandry?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Dora

What is Polyandry?

Polyandry, oh, that's one woman having more than one husband. I was thinking of polyarmory.

There's no biblical precedent of polyandry. Therefore I say it's outside of the scope of biblical sanction.

[HappyTown]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Polyandry, oh, that's one woman having more than one husband. I was thinking of polyarmory.

There's no biblical precedent of polyandry. Therefore I say it's outside of the scope of biblical sanction.

Ok kinda like the woman at the well she had more then one...

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

This is why Jesus said we must count the cost.... Evidently he did and it was too high.

Tough choices had to be made by those in the First Century also. If you were a Jew, you forfeited everything to become a disciple of Jesus Christ. Even today, Muslim converts often convert knowing it may cost them horrendous persecution or even their lives. But regardless of the cost, if it's right, it's right! (See Mark 8:34-38; 1Peter 4:13-16)

See, here's what bothers me about your conceptualization. You'd be happy that the man divorced his second wife and reduced her to prostitution or being a sex slave for the sake of your religious convictions on the issue. You'd pat the man on the back while he proudly smiled about his new found "faith". You'd shrug your shoulders and say, "Well, yep, my brother, we have to pay a price to follow Jesus." See you're thinking about sex and his loss of a second partner. He's thinking about personal advancement in the new church he's apart of. Frankly, he didn't pay a price at all....the second wife who can't find work because she's regarded as discarded trash....she's paying the price. She's the one who will be forced to desperate measures to feed herself and her kids. She's the one who will be brutalized by men who want to abuse her. She's the one who will be forced into the slave trade, transfered out of the country, and her children stolen and made to fight in some African revolutionary army as child soldiers. She paid a dear price to accommodate your convictions.

Here's my position....

Let them remain married.

Consider Christ's words...

Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

This second wife is a legal wife and cannot be divorced unless she commits sexual infidelity. So divorce of any kind is out of the picture.

I'd explain to him that there is a cost to serving Christ. Paul explained that Bishops and Deacons may only have one wife and how that precludes him from serving in a licensed leadership capacity or on the board. I'd explain to him that the church would not conduct marriage ceremonies for him to marry more wives. I would explain that his children will never be permitted to marry more than one woman for as long as they remain a part of the church. The polygamy would stop with his generation. Also I'd suggest that if at all possible the second wife and her children live separately from him and his first wife and her children. I would advise him that he is still responsible for providing the care, needs, and all provision of both women and all children.

I feel that would be the best possible resolution of a complex situation. No women are forced into degradation, no children are abandoned and left to the whiles of an exploitive world, yet monogamy is assailed and Paul's literal commands are enforced in the church.

Jesus said something to the Pharisees that I think is relevant...

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The Pharisees were keeping the "letter of the law" meticulously. However, they had neglected justice, mercy, and faith. In my example of above, in respects to the second wife's wellbeing and her children's wellbeing, I'm trying to act in favor of justice, mercy, and faith. Because it will be this second wife and her precious children that pay the price....not this man.