Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

[Nina]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Texas may indeed have a more limiting standard for warrants. Constitutionally under the Fourth Amendment and the Courts interpretation in Illinois v. Gates...

The rigid "two-pronged test" under Aguilar and Spinelli for determining whether an informant's tip establishes probable cause for issuance of a warrant is abandoned, and the "totality of the circumstances" approach that traditionally has informed probable cause determinations is substituted in its place. The elements under the "two-pronged test" concerning the informant's "veracity," "reliability," and "basis of knowledge" should be understood simply as closely intertwined issues that may usefully illuminate the common sense, practical question whether there is "probable cause" to believe that contraband or evidence is located in a particular place.

Brother,

Remember Lawrence v Texas?
This was the sodomy case where (If I remember correctly)the Supreme Court first cited Foreign Court rulings to neuter the prevailing sodomy laws.

Here is Wikipedia concerning the probable cause ruling.
Notice there was also a hoax call here.

The petitioners, medical technologist John Geddes Lawrence, then 55, and Tyron Garner (1967–2006),[2] then 31, were alleged to have been engaging in consensual anal sex in Lawrence's apartment in the outskirts of Houston between 10:30 and 11 p.m. on September 17, 1998 when Harris County sheriff's deputy Joseph Quinn entered the unlocked apartment, with his weapon drawn, arresting the two.

The arrests had stemmed from a false report of a "weapons disturbance" in their home — that because of a domestic disturbance or robbery, there was a man with a gun "going crazy." The person who filed the report, neighbor Robert Royce Eubanks, then 40,[3] had earlier been accused of harassing the plaintiffs. (Despite the false report, probable cause to enter the home was not at issue in the case; Eubanks, with whom Garner was romantically involved at the time of the arrest,[4] later admitted that he was lying, pled no contest to charges of filing a false police report, and served 15 days in jail.)

Interesting stuff.
Nina

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Nina

Brother,

Remember Lawrence v Texas?
This was the sodomy case where (If I remember correctly)the Supreme Court first cited Foreign Court rulings to neuter the prevailing sodomy laws.

Here is Wikipedia concerning the probable cause ruling.
Notice there was also a hoax call here.

The petitioners, medical technologist John Geddes Lawrence, then 55, and Tyron Garner (1967–2006),[2] then 31, were alleged to have been engaging in consensual anal sex in Lawrence's apartment in the outskirts of Houston between 10:30 and 11 p.m. on September 17, 1998 when Harris County sheriff's deputy Joseph Quinn entered the unlocked apartment, with his weapon drawn, arresting the two.

The arrests had stemmed from a false report of a "weapons disturbance" in their home — that because of a domestic disturbance or robbery, there was a man with a gun "going crazy." The person who filed the report, neighbor Robert Royce Eubanks, then 40,[3] had earlier been accused of harassing the plaintiffs. (Despite the false report, probable cause to enter the home was not at issue in the case; Eubanks, with whom Garner was romantically involved at the time of the arrest,[4] later admitted that he was lying, pled no contest to charges of filing a false police report, and served 15 days in jail.)

Interesting stuff.
Nina

Nina- It is not up to the Court to look for possible legal issues but to address the issues the attorneys raise. To the best of my knowledge, probable cause wasn't objected to.

Instead, this case was used to change the law regarding homosexual acts between consenting adults because they appealed the case against them based on equal protection and privacy grounds.

This argument in the big picture, had much greater ramifications than simply avoiding a comparitively small fine by arguing a lack of probable cause.

Consequently, so long as the court made no determination about probable cause in this case; it isn't a case that belongs in a probable cause section of Wikepedia.

PS I haven't read the entire case since law school. So feel free to let me know if probable cause was raised.

[Newman]

PS Correction/ This was the case that overturned the case I read in law school and generated lots of attention when it was issued.

[Nina]

Originally Posted by Newman

Consequently, so long as the court made no determination about probable cause in this case; it isn't a case that belongs in a probable cause section of Wikepedia.

PS I haven't read the entire case since law school. So feel free to let me know if probable cause was raised.

Sister,

This wasn't in the probable cause section.
I just thought it was interesting that probable cause wasn't brought up.
And the similarities in the two incidents intrigued me.

Do You think the polygamists are getting ready to fight for their rights to marry as they believe God requires them?

Nina

[Nina]

Something else to think about:

Warren Jeffs, the prophet of the folk in Eldorado, is in prison for two counts of "rape as an accomplice" for his role in arranging a 2002 marriage between a 14-year-old girl and her 19-year-old cousin.

This is the man whose word is as the "oracles of God" to these people.

I think the police should have stepped in long ago.

[Kae]

Originally Posted by Nina

Something else to think about:

Warren Jeffs, the prophet of the folk in Eldorado, is in prison for two counts of "rape as an accomplice" for his role in arranging a 2002 marriage between a 14-year-old girl and her 19-year-old cousin.

This is the man whose word is as the "oracles of God" to these people.

I think the police should have stepped in long ago.

They tried in 1953 and after 2 years everyone went back to the compound free. This was such a victory that officials in Utah and Arizona turn a blind eye and even return children to abusive situations.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Kae

They tried in 1953 and after 2 years everyone went back to the compound free. This was such a victory that officials in Utah and Arizona turn a blind eye and even return children to abusive situations.

It's not going down like that this time around. Last time....

1. The media was involved and sympathetic to their plight;

2. The members looked like just about any one else (so the public was empathetic); and

3. Freedom of Religion mattered.

Today, there isn't just indifference to religion but even hostility towards it.

A government agency wants even the babies removed from their homes because of the beliefs of their parents not specific acts of child abuse they can allege about each member. THIS IS DANGEROUS GROUND.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Nina

Something else to think about:

Warren Jeffs, the prophet of the folk in Eldorado, is in prison for two counts of "rape as an accomplice" for his role in arranging a 2002 marriage between a 14-year-old girl and her 19-year-old cousin.

This is the man whose word is as the "oracles of God" to these people.

I think the police should have stepped in long ago.

Do you think they should have removed 462 children from their homes and mothers including nursing babies?

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Newman

It's not going down like that this time around. Last time....

1. The media was involved and sympathetic to their plight;

2. The members looked like just about any one else (so the public was empathetic); and

3. Freedom of Religion mattered.

Today, there isn't just indifference to religion but even hostility towards it.

A government agency wants even the babies removed from their homes because of the beliefs of their parents not specific acts of child abuse they can allege about each member. THIS IS DANGEROUS GROUND.

Right Newman & that is both dangerous & sobering to say the least!

[Kae]

Originally Posted by Newman

It's not going down like that this time around. Last time....

1. The media was involved and sympathetic to their plight;

2. The members looked like just about any one else (so the public was empathetic); and

3. Freedom of Religion mattered.

Today, there isn't just indifference to religion but even hostility towards it.

A government agency wants even the babies removed from their homes because of the beliefs of their parents not specific acts of child abuse they can allege about each member. THIS IS DANGEROUS GROUND.

I was really referring to Nina's comment on why the police haven't stepped in sooner. Colorado, Utah, Canada, and Arizona communities are all connected and the TX branch is just an extension of the these other communities. Over the years children that have tried to run away and seek help from authorities they have returned them even when there was child abuse. One girl that was returned was 13 and locked in a room for three years after the authorities returned her. This is just one example there have been many. They have even taken girls into the community in Canada to hide them. Many of the authorities in these other states are Mormon and even though they have rejected polygamy they still don't want to interfere with their religious beliefs. In Texas they don't have this history that the other communities do.