Trying to Rescue Another from HMH Doctrine

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by houston

So women who cut their hair are not following the Holy Ghost???

That's what they say.
I have heard them say that.

And not only that, they are NOT saved.
I have heard them say that too!

Cutting hair is just as bad as having an abortion.
I have seen them post that on a forum.

Changing jeans for skirts will save you.
I have heard them preach this also.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

That's what they say.
I have heard them say that.

And not only that, they are NOT saved.
I have heard them say that too!

Cutting hair is just as bad as having an abortion.
I have seen them post that on a forum.

Changing jeans for skirts will save you.
I have heard them preach this also.

What happened to the blood of Christ on the Cross in all of this?

[Falla39]

1 If thou wouldst have the dear Savior from heaven
Walk by thy side from the morn till the even,
There is a rule that each day you must follow:
Humble thyself to walk with God.


Refrain:
Humble thyself and the Lord will draw near thee,
Humble thyself and His presence shall cheer thee;
He will not walk with the proud or the scornful,
Humble thyself to walk with God.


2 Just as the Lord, in the world’s early ages,
Walked and communed with the prophets and sages,
He will come now if you meet the conditions:
Humble thyself to walk with God. [Refrain]


3 Just as the stream finds a bed that is lowly,
So Jesus walks with the pure and the holy;
Cast out thy pride, and in heartfelt contrition
Humble thyself to walk with God. [Refrain]

[acerrak]

My dear savior was walking side by side me when i was in my filth, when i was a hell bound dirty stinkin sinner. Days he would convict me to repent and ask forgiveness. Now that he has me why would he abandon me?

Does not the scripture say I will never leave you nor forsake you?

Does not Paul declare in romans
8:38-39
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

after what He went through for me and you, do you think that The grace of God is not sufficient to cover your sins?

Did not Jesus atone for all sin, everyone of them? does not the bible say that he made the one sacrifice for all sin then sat down at the right hand of the Father.

to many people are preaching the law, they dont understand what Grace is.
they walk around in and out of salvation based on (their) so called good deeds.

You didnt merit grace and you dont keep your self saved by and merit.
so those who say that a woman cuts their hair is going to hell is giving the power to sin over grace, and is really putting the sacrifice of God to shame stating that grace cant abound much more than sin.

even though cutting hair is not a sin, it was just considered a shame or a embarresment, but who was the one getting embarrased? It wasnt God. Cause he gave women no such command.

It is not found in the old testament but we can find it in the jewish man made laws as traditions. Infact women in the old testament did cut their hair, and some orthodox jewish women do the same and wear a wig in its place.

[AreYouReady?]

Back in Paul’s day, certain “teachers” tried to tell the Gentile men that in order to be saved, they had to keep the law of Moses and be circumcised.

But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


The Apostles conferred together with the elders and came up with this in Acts 15


28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well.

And again in Acts 21
Fare ye well. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.


_____________________

It seems to me that mankind has always tried through the last two thousand years to attach conditions to the blood shed of Christ and His Salvation. If I Cor 11 was so important to a woman’s salvation, then I don’t think that Paul would have been so ambiguous in his wording if this was an important issue of salvation for women. I think he would have plainly said that women must not cut their hair in order to be saved, just like he disputed the teachers of his day concerning the law of Moses and circumcision for men. Just like he
gave explicit description of who would not inherit the Kingdom of God in

I Cor 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And in Galatians 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

So why is it necessary to put a yoke of bondage and/or conditions upon a woman's salvation by using the hair issue?

If a woman wants to grow her hair out long, that is fine. Even the heathen grow their hair out long. So what? Are they saved by their long hair?

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

It seems to me that mankind has always tried through the last two thousand years to attach conditions to the blood shed of Christ and His Salvation. If I Cor 11 was so important to a woman’s salvation, then I don’t think that Paul would have been so ambiguous in his wording if this was an important issue of salvation for women. I think he would have plainly said that women must not cut their hair in order to be saved, just like he disputed the teachers of his day concerning the law of Moses and circumcision for men.
So why is it necessary to put a yoke of bondage and/or conditions upon a woman's salvation by using the hair issue?

If a woman wants to grow her hair out long, that is fine. Even the heathen grow their hair out long. So what? Are they saved by their long hair?

My late pastor father was of the opinion that Paul, busy man that he was, (and many times wrote from a damp, dark prison with inadequate lighting, with pen & quill), would not have taken the time to write 16 verses in 1Cor. 11, to conclude that it really didn't matter anyway! Paul, perhaps put it out there to those Corinthians with the idea in mind that if there were those that was contentious about it, the churches of God had no such customs. Could it be that the veil was for the sake of those Corinthians who had offered their hair to the idols. To cover their baldness until their hair grew out.
Never viewed my covering as putting me in bondage.

Falla39

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Falla39

My late pastor father was of the opinion that Paul, busy man that he was, (and many times wrote from a damp, dark prison with inadequate lighting, with pen & quill), would not have taken the time to write 16 verses in 1Cor. 11, to conclude that it really didn't matter anyway! Paul, perhaps put it out there to those Corinthians with the idea in mind that if there were those that was contentious about it, the churches of God had no such customs. Could it be that the veil was for the sake of those Corinthians who had offered their hair to the idols. To cover their baldness until their hair grew out.
Never viewed my covering as putting me in bondage.

Falla39

Nor have I, Sis. Falla...

It would seem that bondage is in the eye of the beholder.

Look, if uncut hair is bondage, than by all means...they should cut it. Not doing so in regret or fear or intimidation or any other reason is just plain silly.

But for those of us who do not believe it is bondage, we will not cut it. For me, it is a choice.

It's that simple...

And wow! First it's garbage and now bondage...and I won't even comment on being in the same sentence with heathens. What other words are people going to throw out to describe a decision or conviction?

I realize all too well that there is junk thrown out on this side of the issue...I could tell stories from just this past year that would curl one's hair, regardless of the length.

But that is no excuse for what I read here by those of a differing view.

Cut it, for crying out loud! Who cares?

[houston]

Originally Posted by Falla39

1 If thou wouldst have the dear Savior from heaven
Walk by thy side from the morn till the even,
There is a rule that each day you must follow:
Humble thyself to walk with God.


Refrain:
Humble thyself and the Lord will draw near thee,
Humble thyself and His presence shall cheer thee;
He will not walk with the proud or the scornful,
Humble thyself to walk with God.


2 Just as the Lord, in the world’s early ages,
Walked and communed with the prophets and sages,
He will come now if you meet the conditions:
Humble thyself to walk with God. [Refrain]


3 Just as the stream finds a bed that is lowly,
So Jesus walks with the pure and the holy;
Cast out thy pride, and in heartfelt contrition
Humble thyself to walk with God. [Refrain]

Now the bob-haired broads are not humble??? Welcome to Condescension 101 with Prof. Falla

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

What happened to the blood of Christ on the Cross in all of this?

Good question.

Apparently what Christ did at the cross was not enough.

Turns out, according to them, you also need to speak in tongues and be baptized in water.
If not, you go to hell.

In other words: Dress code - Hair code - Water Baptism - Speaking in Tongues.
These four items will get you saved.
(Oh, I forgot: no make up and jewelry!)

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Barb

Nor have I, Sis. Falla...

It would seem that bondage is in the eye of the beholder.

Look, if uncut hair is bondage, than by all means...they should cut it. Not doing so in regret or fear or intimidation or any other reason is just plain silly.

But for those of us who do not believe it is bondage, we will not cut it. For me, it is a choice.

It's that simple...

And wow! First it's garbage and now bondage...and I won't even comment on being in the same sentence with heathens. What other words are people going to throw out to describe a decision or conviction?

I realize all too well that there is junk thrown out on this side of the issue...I could tell stories from just this past year that would curl one's hair, regardless of the length.

But that is no excuse for what I read here by those of a differing view.

Cut it, for crying out loud! Who cares?

Apparently you all (as preached in OP churches, maybe not Unregistered in particular) care what other women do by telling a woman she is not saved if she cuts her hair.

You all (as preached in OP churches, maybe not Unregistered in particular) don't mind telling women who cut their hair that they are unsaved, unholy, unsanctified, the dirt of the ground and are not going to inherit the Kingdom of God, but take great offense if we say something about YOUR convictions.

You all (as preached in OP churches, maybe not Unregistered in particular) are the ones who degrades women who cut their hair and shuns them or chastises what they do as if it is any of their business.

OP churches are the ones who teach others to act cold and hard towards others who do not line up with their "standards".

Go on and be hostile towards what I had to say about your standards. You people do not try to listen to how somebody else feels without taking offense within yourselves. People try to tell OP's how they feel and it doesn't matter to them. People other than OP's are wrong no matter what they say. This attitude of what you all think holiness really is...is one reason why I won't go into UPC anymore. I suffered at the mouths of women who think just like you. Only back then, I was a lot nicer than I am now about this subject. I still got verbally smacked around. Long hair and all... most of the OP women are some of the most mean-spirited women I have ever met...and I've met thousands of people.

You won't comment about long hair on heathen women? You just did. Why should you get all upset when I mention that even the heathen grown their hair long? It is the truth that women who are very vain and models grow hair long for the adoration of others. Oh I forgot...they are heathen and you are not and you would prefer not to sully your image of holiness.

Personally, I don't give a flying leap if you grow your your hair 15 feet. But for many of you men and women judging somebody else's spirituality because of their hair, clothing and a host of other outward appearances, then getting all indignant because the other side says what they feel about your judging is just....pious and hypocritical!

Now you will probably add those words to your list of offenses that you think I have made towards you!

PS...I maintain that if one isn't guilty of any this, then they will not be offended by what I am trying to convey.