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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #501  
Old 08-15-2014, 04:11 PM
shag shag is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
Here is my response

Well, If you teach the junk You mentioned, then just fix it. Its not hard to reeducate yourself in the truth.(unless you are under peer pressure). I dont just sit there and AMEN someone teaching unbiblical doctrines. I go home and research it to see if it is Biblically correct or just theory...

Hey what do you know, the cut and paste function is useful after all.


Flame,
When are u going to explain who explained and where tithing was explained to the Gentiles engrafted in, from scripture, and who all has the right to receive it and who all should pay it according to scripture? (not to mention where the year of jubilee no tithing) . Please explain EXACTLY how it all goes down, because Paul somehow forgot too.
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  #502  
Old 08-15-2014, 04:13 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

This is serious stuff folks....If you dont get your doctrines lined up exactly with the Apostles, you WILL end up lost(if the Apostles did not teach it, we should not either). None of us will get into heaven teaching others' false doctrine. It is scary, but true. We will all give an account by our words. Individually. Just imagine when a man stands before the Lord and He begins to tell the man he taught false doctrine to souls and damaged or destroyed their faith. Jesus will no doubt be FURIOUS with this teacher...The time is NOW to fix any errors in our doctrines or we(teachers) will pay the ultimate price!

Speaking Out Against False Teachers
Many think it is wrong to speak out against false teachers, or to warn Christians not to follow particular teachers because of their teachings. What does the Bible say about this?

"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron...If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed" (1 Timothy 4:1-2,6). Notice that Paul specifically exhorts that the brethren should be made aware of false teachings. Notice that he says "if you point these things out to the brethren, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus" (emphasis mine). So Paul is telling us that a "good minister of Christ Jesus" points out false teachings.

If that is not enough, how about "but there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovreign Lord who bought them - bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping" (2 Peter 2:1-3). Here Peter warns us of the rise of false teachers within the church. But it is not without reason. Notice that the heresies they preach are "destructive" and that following them will "bring the way of truth into disrepute."

"But none of these verses mention specific teachers," you say? "Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, holding on to the faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme" (1 Timothy 1:18-20). "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth..." (2 Timothy 2:15-18). Here Paul has mentioned false teachers by name, in order that they be warned, and others be warned of their false teachings, and with purpose. The men mentioned here, through their false teachings, have "blaspheme[d]" and "shipwrecked their faith." By their false teachings ("godless chatter"), they and those who follow them "become more and more ungodly." In order that they may become more godly, we must turn them away from these ungodly teachings.

How do we do this? Compare what the preachers teach to what the Bible says. Even Paul was not above having his teachings checked: "Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true" (Acts 17:11). Who could teach the Scriptures more reliably than Paul? Were the Bereans criticized for comparing his teachings to Scripture? No! On the contrary, they were commended for doing so. So why are those who question the teachings of some of the most popular preachers criticized?

Maybe this verse will help answer that question: "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths" (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

We cannot judge anyone's heart or their motives. We must be very careful in this matter. "Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted" (Galatians 6:1). We must not be hypocritical or judgemental in our correction. We must, however, examine every teaching that comes from every teacher in light of Holy Scripture. Scripture itself exhorts us to do so when it says, "dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

If I have not yet listed enough scripture warning against false teachers, then the following list of verses should help:
Matthew 7:15-23; Matthew 24:10; Mark 22:23; Acts 20:25-31; Romans 16:17-18; Galatians 1:6-9; Colossians 2:8,18-19; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; 1 Timothy 1:3-7; 1 Timothy 1:18-20; 1 Timothy 4:1-8,16; 1 Timothy 5:3-10; 1 Timothy 6:20-21; 2 Timothy 2:14-18; 2 Timothy 3:1-9; 2 Timothy 4:1-5; Titus 1:9-16; 2 Peter 2:1-22; 2 Peter 3:14-18; 1 John 1:18-27; 1 John 4:1-6; 2 John 7-11; Jude 3-19
This is by no means a comprehensive list. Many others warnings exist in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. Hopefully this has shown that, not only is it not wrong to confront and speak out against false teachers, but because of the spiritual devastation they cause, it is our obligation to Christ and the brethren to do so. Let me leave you with the words of the apostle Paul: "'I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears" (Acts 20:29-31).

Last edited by Sean; 08-15-2014 at 04:19 PM.
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  #503  
Old 08-15-2014, 04:50 PM
Rudy Rudy is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

They won't stop teaching tithing money. We need alternative places to meet.
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  #504  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:25 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

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Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
They won't stop teaching tithing money. We need alternative places to meet.


I think the only way to stop this nonsense is if the Lord gets involved in judging those that teach tithing to others. Jesus can definitely put a stop to it...then we can finally and officially be declared "out of the reformation" and back to the original.
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  #505  
Old 08-15-2014, 07:44 PM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Speaking Out Against False Teachers
Many think it is wrong to speak out against false teachers, or to warn Christians not to follow particular teachers because of their teachings. What does the Bible say about this?
I fully agree with what your are saying, but the problem is that everyone thinks only they are the true teachers and everyone else is a false teacher.

you think that only preachers who believe exactly like you do are the true teachers, which is only your own opinion.

stop accusing others of being false preachers for perhaps they are not, they just happened to disagree with you.
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  #506  
Old 08-15-2014, 09:48 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post

I think the only way to stop this nonsense is if the Lord gets involved in judging those that teach tithing to others. Jesus can definitely put a stop to it...then we can finally and officially be declared "out of the reformation" and back to the original.
You know Reformed Churches don't teach tithing.
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  #507  
Old 08-15-2014, 09:59 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnTraditional View Post
I would like to know if any of the anti-tithers on this thread are under any kind of pastoral leadership? Do you who talk against tithing also come against sitting under a man of God? I know that is the pattern in many anti-tithe lives, to be against any God given authority, and to be against church buildings, and to be against leadership as well.
I have been against tithing for years. During the entire time I was either a member of a church or serving in mini of the church.

I'm neither against leadership (of the scriptural kind not abusive authoritarian kind) nor buildings. Bro what is your point? It seems you are trying to demonize others over the tithing issue. You are a reason some anti-tithers don't go to church because they know the scriptures and don't want to have mans condemnation heaped onto them by ministers who are either to lazy to search the matter out or too cowardly to admit they were wrong about it, or worse, too greedy to change their position because it could affect their lifestyle.

Are some anti tithers greedy? Yes. Do some have a problem with authority? Yes. However that is not the case for most and furthermore even if someone is a greedy rebellious scoundrel that doesn't determine whether their argument is true or false. All such demonization is simply a deflection from the real question which is "Do the scriptures teach New Testament all saints everywhere and for all times must pay a tithe(10%) of money to the local church"? YES or NO.

Why don't we start with your answer to that question and discuss it scripturally.
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Last edited by Jason B; 08-15-2014 at 10:50 PM.
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  #508  
Old 08-15-2014, 10:01 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
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A church that doesn't teach tithing:

http://www.Fellowshipbiblentx.org
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"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship

"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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  #509  
Old 08-15-2014, 10:08 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
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Actually there are tons of churches that do not teach tithing. Outside of the charismatic movement most churches do not teach tithing. Some Baptist churches do, but to my knowledge Bible Churches, Churches of Christ, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, Anglican and others don't teach tithing.

Of course the Mormons do, I think 7th day Adventists do too. But my point is outside of the broad charismatic movement and the cults (except JWs) there's not much support for tithing, especially in the sense of do it or burn in hell.
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards

"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship

"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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  #510  
Old 08-15-2014, 10:13 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
I fully agree with what your are saying, but the problem is that everyone thinks only they are the true teachers and everyone else is a false teacher.

you think that only preachers who believe exactly like you do are the true teachers, which is only your own opinion.

stop accusing others of being false preachers for perhaps they are not, they just happened to disagree with you.


I will NEVER stop exposing false doctrine. If a person can defend their position better than I can, shame on me. If I can defend my position better than they can, shame on them. It's not wrong to show someone the error of their way. Sometimes you must call someone a LIAR to get their attention. Jesus did....Thats how we get each other into heaven. It all depends on the man's response. If I grabbed someone by the shoulders and yelled at them to stop watching porn, there can be 2 types of responses...
#1...The person could get pushed out of shape, offended and reject my exhortation, saying..."how dare you get in my business".

Or

#2....The person could humble themselves and see the Lord through me yelling at them to get their attention, to keep them out of hell and eternal shame.

Again, if anyone is teaching false doctrine, they will be LOST for eternity. They must get as serious as cancer with this Bible and teach exactly like the Apostles. If not, the Apostles doctrine will TESTIFY against them in eternity!
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