"Beards are sin!" False doctrine?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

How is that the same when God never commanded men to do it? He is not recorded as doing it?

Where does God command men to wear a beard?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I wouldn't forbid smokers from serving in the church. I'd admonish that they quit for the sake of their health. Same with those who drink coffee and eat fast food every day.

3 John 2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Health? I know men who smoked cigarettes their whole lives. Everyone is different, and genetics play hard in whether or not you will get ill from chewing or smoking tobacco. Same goes with eating fast food, I know whole families who were raised on 7 eleven food, two sister who were given Slurpees for breakfast since they were 5, and they are in their 30s now. Coffee is hugely a debatable issue, because the arguments run from Dan to Beersheba on that puppy. Anyway, cigarettes in a church family? Anyone in coming into your church who is unchurch would look at your cigarette congregation as having a screw loose. I know churches which have cigarettes buts strewn out front from their smokers corner. Socially unacceptable, smelly, and dirty.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Where does God command men to wear a beard?

I don't believe the NT requires a beard. Nor does it prohibit a beard.

[Michael The Disciple]

I should have phrased LEVITICUS 19:27 as he commanded HIS PEOPLE not to mar the corners of their beards.

So God designed into men that they would grow beards. When he came in flesh he had one.

We are NOT told that he ever smoked cigarettes.

Is that better?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I should have phrased LEVITICUS 19:27 as he commanded HIS PEOPLE not to mar the corners of their beards.

So God designed into men that they would grow beards. When he came in flesh he had one.

We are NOT told that he ever smoked cigarettes.

Is that better?

Mike, women grow beards. Yet, you have no prohibition concerning their cutting anything around those beards. Same with cigarettes.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't believe the NT requires a beard. Nor does it prohibit a beard.

There isn't anything. Paul by his freeborn Roman status could of been clean shaven like the rest of the Romans. Hellenized Roman Judeans of the Diaspora could of had beards, and non beards. Some even becoming uncircumcised "epispasm" which latter Rabbinics protested against. It wasn't an issue for the first century church but a preference, largely depending on what part of the spectrum of the culture you were on.

[consapente89]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

When he came in flesh he had one.

Wow!!!!!!! That's a new one!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

You added a bit to it. But yes, a church and its Pastor can establish guidelines for ministry based both on biblical principles and other norms and preferences.

I never said you weren't allowed to question it.

I agree with anything that can be based on biblical principle.

Can you provide a text that would support a pastor establishing a "standard" that allows partiality towards fellow brethren for something that isn't even a sin on account of personal preference???

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

There isn't anything. Paul by his freeborn Roman status could of been clean shaven like the rest of the Romans. Hellenized Roman Judeans of the Diaspora could of had beards, and non beards. Some even becoming uncircumcised "epispasm" which latter Rabbinics protested against. It wasn't an issue for the first century church but a preference, largely depending on what part of the spectrum of the culture you were on.

Amen.

Both Jesus and Paul could have preached in the same Apostolic church in the first century. It wouldn't matter if anyone had a beard or not.

But these cats would tell Jesus Himself that he isn't worthy to serve on their platforms based on a man's preference.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Health? I know men who smoked cigarettes their whole lives. Everyone is different, and genetics play hard in whether or not you will get ill from chewing or smoking tobacco. Same goes with eating fast food, I know whole families who were raised on 7 eleven food, two sister who were given Slurpees for breakfast since they were 5, and they are in their 30s now. Coffee is hugely a debatable issue, because the arguments run from Dan to Beersheba on that puppy. Anyway, cigarettes in a church family? Anyone in coming into your church who is unchurch would look at your cigarette congregation as having a screw loose. I know churches which have cigarettes buts strewn out front from their smokers corner. Socially unacceptable, smelly, and dirty.

How would you encourage family to quit smoking, EB? Would you disown them? Or would you help them see the dangers, encourage health, help them see how it isn't expedient, help them see how enslaving it is, how all the money spent on cigarettes hinders their prosperity and blessing, and help them see how the outcome of their addiction isn't loving or fair towards those who love them???

The closest I can come to such a Scripture that would allow me to threaten Hell would be:

1 Corinthians 3:17 ESV
If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

But I'd have to be careful. Because in context, this verse is about divisions within the body, destroying the church (seen as the temple of God). Also, I'd have to be just as hard on being overweight, drinking sodas, eating friend food, etc.

Perhaps I could argue that they are not loving those who love them as themselves. They wouldn't want to watch a loved one smoke themselves to an early death, therefore putting their loved ones through that very thing isn't loving, and is therefore sin. But, again, I'd have to employ the same logic towards everything that is not good for the body.

I see encouragement to health, holistic living, loving others, loving one's self (in a healthy manner), identifying with Christ, and surrendering your body to Him as a healthy vessel for service as the best way to approach it. Because then this loving and holistic approach could be applied towards all things, based on the individual's health and disposition.

Please understand, I'm not saying I'd do nothing. However, I don't see Scripture that would allow me to dangle them over Hell on account of it.