I have Left the UPC Church

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by sola gratia

How about this instead: Michlow seek truth, abandon all that you know and let truth be your only guide. Not fear, not intimidation, and not familarity... Just simple truth. This is your journey... no one elses! You make your decisions.... It's not nearly as scary, loose and dark out here as some would have you believe

Creatures of the night are not afraid of the night only the creatures of the day.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by NLYP

Mich.....You know I am a "liberal"...but I am a Liberal Apostolic...and I cannot rejoice over this.
Matters of the soul are never ever to be taken lightly and contrary to what others say, and you know me, I could care less what they think. Standards do not make you Apostolic...the Acts 2:38 message makes you Apostolic.
Stay Apostolic in that sense...you dont have to be UPC to be saved or Apostolic...but you MUST...hear me my friend...you MUST no sway from the foundation of the church.
If you do...you are not a "believer"...you are a denier..and that is a scary place to be.
Pray about this...dont fall into the "Im sincere" group...dont just be sincere...be right!

Love you much and pray Gods strength and wisdom during this CRUCIAL point in your Christian walk.

Bro. Dan

Ahhh...this brings up an interesting question. Is it better to go to a church where Acts 2:38 is not preached (as the way of salvation) or is it better to not go to church at all? Isn't that why Coop has been unchurched for years?

Maybe I am not a believer. Maybe I AM a denier as you say. When one finds out that what they were taught for years as "Truth" was in fact "lies", would they not then by rights question EVERYTHING that supposedly wore the label of truth?

I can just see all of you out there shaking your heads at the computer while you read this, and praying "Oh Lord, help her, now she's questioning the doctrine. She is so deceived..."

Honestly. Why is Acts 2:38 above question?

Right now, these are the only things that I know to be Truth:

God Is.

Jesus is God.

Receving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost changed me inside.

I can make no claims about the Bible, or salvation doctorine, or the church.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Ahhh...this brings up an interesting question. Is it better to go to a church where Acts 2:38 is not preached (as the way of salvation) or is it better to not go to church at all? Isn't that why Coop has been unchurched for years?

Maybe I am not a believer. Maybe I AM a denier as you say. When one finds out that what they were taught for years as "Truth" was in fact "lies", would they not then by rights question EVERYTHING that supposedly wore the label of truth?

I can just see all of you out there shaking your heads at the computer while you read this, and praying "Oh Lord, help her, now she's questioning the doctrine. She is so deceived..."

Honestly. Why is Acts 2:38 above question?

Right now, these are the only things that I know to be Truth:

God Is.

Jesus is God.

Receving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost changed me inside.

I can make no claims about the Bible, or salvation doctorine, or the church.

Sadly but surely this is more proof to all you standard bashers FIRST the standards THEN the doctrine I have never seen it fail. Either the abandon the doctrine or compromise it so bad it is watered down to mean nothing.

Originally Posted by Michlow

Ahhh...this brings up an interesting question. Is it better to go to a church where Acts 2:38 is not preached (as the way of salvation) or is it better to not go to church at all? Isn't that why Coop has been unchurched for years?

Maybe I am not a believer. Maybe I AM a denier as you say. When one finds out that what they were taught for years as "Truth" was in fact "lies", would they not then by rights question EVERYTHING that supposedly wore the label of truth?

I can just see all of you out there shaking your heads at the computer while you read this, and praying "Oh Lord, help her, now she's questioning the doctrine. She is so deceived..."

Honestly. Why is Acts 2:38 above question?

Right now, these are the only things that I know to be Truth:

God Is.

Jesus is God.

Receving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost changed me inside.

I can make no claims about the Bible, or salvation doctorine, or the church.

Hey, Mich.... prove all things, hold fast that which is good.

God bless.

[Steve Epley]

Lois already has a forum for all you enlightened folks. You can go over there and lick each other's supposed wounds. As the saying is "You can't handle the truth."

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Lois already has a forum for all you enlightened folks. You can go over there and lick each other's supposed wounds. As the saying is "You can't handle the truth."

That's right SE, kick them while they're down. That will certainly help.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by ILG

That's right SE, kick them while they're down. That will certainly help.

Not speaking to Michlow but her encouragers!

However she has been predictable from day one. You can't lay out of church regularly and not wind up in her condition which is sad. If she had heard a unified voice here on telling her to get in a church and be faithful I doubt his would have been her testimony.

[NLYP]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Sadly but surely this is more proof to all you standard bashers FIRST the standards THEN the doctrine I have never seen it fail. Either the abandon the doctrine or compromise it so bad it is watered down to mean nothing.

Mich...please dont get defensive...I said those things to you in love....
The problem is this....
People come to God and they come through the New Birth Experience.....then they are yolked with a bunch of man made nonsence and expected to think that standards are essentials to a salvational experience.
YOU are right to question outward man made rules and "standards"...question away.....but never question what brought you into the church to begin with.

In respect to Epelys post...herein lies the problem.

They preach the outward donts so hard that the person questions it all when the questioning begins. Just remember this...the Acts 2:38 message is the new birth...water and spirit. Please from my soul dont question that.
I am sorry if your experience with the UPC was one of such that would make you consider throwing it all away. That is sad.

Remember this....you are a child of God....the Bible plan of salvation made you that.....HOLD ON TO THAT!

As far as the other stuff.......let it go...get your Bible...get alone with God...listen to the voice of conviction and let it mold and shape your holiness...not a pulpit!
Listen to your Pastor...then pray and ask God. Dont obey him out of fear or intimidation...but listen and pray.

Epely..as far as your comment...standards first.....doctrine second...my answer is simple...IF you guys would quit corrupting truth with your rules, regulations, dogmas, creeds and man made nonsence and quit preaching it like its part of the cross, and the new birth message and let the Holy Ghost do its thing....they would not question it.
BUT when they see the light of some of this nonsence it causes them to question the whole ball of wax....WE are guilty of the questioning...not them...US!

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by NLYP

Mich...please dont get defensive...I said those things to you in love....
The problem is this....
People come to God and they come through the New Birth Experience.....then they are yolked with a bunch of man made nonsence and expected to think that standards are essentials to a salvational experience.
YOU are right to question outward man made rules and "standards"...question away.....but never question what brought you into the church to begin with.

In respect to Epelys post...herein lies the problem.

They preach the outward donts so hard that the person questions it all when the questioning begins. Just remember this...the Acts 2:38 message is the new birth...water and spirit. Please from my soul dont question that.
I am sorry if your experience with the UPC was one of such that would make you consider throwing it all away. That is sad.

Remember this....you are a child of God....the Bible plan of salvation made you that.....HOLD ON TO THAT!

As far as the other stuff.......let it go...get your Bible...get alone with God...listen to the voice of conviction and let it mold and shape your holiness...not a pulpit!
Listen to your Pastor...then pray and ask God. Dont obey him out of fear or intimidation...but listen and pray.

Epely..as far as your comment...standards first.....doctrine second...my answer is simple...IF you guys would quit corrupting truth with your rules, regulations, dogmas, creeds and man made nonsence and quit preaching it like its part of the cross, and the new birth message and let the Holy Ghost do its thing....they would not question it.
BUT when they see the light of some of this nonsence it causes them to question the whole ball of wax....WE are guilty of the questioning...not them...US!

Dan remember Father Time tells all. We are watching you to see how long it takes you to do what the rest have done. I can nearly count them on ONE had that maintains the doctrine after they abandon the standards. Not my views but their views of standards.
Sir I have NEVER question the absoluteness of the Apostolic message. I have questioned myself and others but NEVER the message. Speak for yourself.

[Malvaro]

reading this thread paints a picture, in my mind, of a person standing at the edge of a rocky cliff with an mob yelling, Yes!!! Jump, Jump, Jump!!!!

Yes, you may make the "jump" away from doctrine.... having seen many others do the same.... it's a rough landing....

I'll let you figure out all the symbolism....