Gay Marriage: For or Against?

[sandie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think that the GOVERNMENT should get out of our private lives and choices. Unless it endangers the life, liberty, and/or property of another... the GOVERNMENT (local) should simply file the papers and keep a record.

Our Founders didn't have marriage licenses. Abraham Lincoln didn't have a marriage license. In the beginning our GOVERNMENT didn't meddle in private choices unless viewed as being dangerous to another's life, liberty, and/or property.

Liberty. Remeber that concept? Personal responsibility? Remember that concept? A private life with private choices? Remember that concept?

We've become dependent on GOVERNMENT to provide and regulate everything including who we wish to choose as a life partner. I understand the moral reservations, I have them too. However, I'm MORE concerned with empowering GOVERNMENT to regulate our private lives and choices. Each side wants to use GOVERNMENT to force an agenda on the other. That's the problem. The GOVERNMENT needs to say, "Hey, we're going to allow liberty of conscience and freedom of religion." Then the GOVERNMENT needs to get it's hands out of our private lives.

I DON'T believe that GOVERNMENT is the answer. Personally, I think gay marriage will fizzle out and be proven to be just another illusion. They'll discover that marriage isn't the paradise they think it is. While you'll see a boom in gay marriages after legalization the numbers will drop significantly. Then the "gay divorces" will start pouring in. Then it will stablize as a nearly insigificant practice of a minority of primarily "religious" gay people.

From an ethical standpoint... gay or straight... if you're going to be intimate with another person, live with them, commit to life long partnership... you should consider a binding agreement. Essentially the current position in this debate is saying that gay people shouldn't live legally committed lives wherein they are legally committed to their partner. In essence, we argue against the gay lifestyle... but encourage gay promiscuity.

I'll just say to you what I said to MB:


Granting marriage to same sex people, society says the behavior is acceptable, approved and a legitmate expression of a union.
God says otherwise, and no He doesn't ask us to put them in prison, but He asks us to support what He supports.
He has called the behavior an abomination, those are strong words. Yes, He hates divorce and fornication, but those behaviors are not endorced by society in the same way same sex marraige would be.
If God says a certain behavior is wrong, then it's wrong and as a Christian I can't endorce it by making it sanctioned behavior.

There's nothing personal about how I feel. I would not and do not treat a homosexual with any less regard then any other human being. God loves us all right where we are, just how we are.

The closer we line up with God's ways as an individual and a society the better off we are.
Anyway, that's how I see things.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

multiple wives?


a adult male with a 13 yr old girl?

Stupid arguments.

Besides, ethically, if a man and more than one woman wish to cohabitate... what business is it of ours??? We're writing laws that would make over half the men of the OT criminal perverts. If we allowed multiple wives.... we'd soon see polygamous divorces. Our cultural fabric and the liberties of our nation empower women far more than at any point in human history. FEW women could consider such an arrangement. And out of those that did... even fewer would tolerate it for long. Again, it would become a marginal practice of a mostly a few religious minorities. Most of which already have such private arrangements under the radar.

And the age of consent is established state to state.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Coadie, I have a God that transcends the power of Government. You have a God who's limited to the power of Government. Therefore you restort to empowering Government to deliver God and establish righteousness.

The GOVERNMENT isn't the answer. In fact... the GOVERNMENT is part of the problem.

You don't know my God. My God destroyed Sodom and Not Lot or Abraham.

My God created man and woman for each other.

The devil wants to have DOMA laws overturned by judicial stunts. The next step is to punish preachers for preaching against himosexuality in the pulpit.

1KINGS 15:11 And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father.

1KINGS 15:12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

That is my God. The false gods want attacks on "homophobes"

My God reigns. My God calls for the Holy Ghost filled to teach against unrighteousnesss.


Compromisers want preachers of righteoussness to be quiet. NO WAY.

Lot's wife was a compromiser and you don't get the message.


We love the homosexuals. We let them suffer. Legalizing a phony marriage won't take away pain. REpentence takes away pain.

Homosexuality is built on lies. To be blunt with you, it is the people that voted for DOMA and not the government. It was the small number of government judges in Iowa that tried to resist the people. That is bad government. God puts conviction into people and they vote.

It is dishonest for people to claim legislation of California marriage will deliver people from bondage and pain.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by sandie

I'll just say to you what I said to MB:


Granting marriage to same sex people, society says the behavior is acceptable, approved and a legitmate expression of a union.
God says otherwise, and no He doesn't ask us to put them in prison, but He asks us to support what He supports.
He has called the behavior an abomination, those are strong words. Yes, He hates divorce and fornication, but those behaviors are not endorced by society in the same way same sex marraige would be.
If God says a certain behavior is wrong, then it's wrong and as a Christian I can't endorce it by making it sanctioned behavior.

There's nothing personal about how I feel. I would not and do not treat a homosexual with any less regard then any other human being. God loves us all right where we are, just how we are.

The closer we line up with God's ways as an individual and a society the better off we are.
Anyway, that's how I see things.

Do you believe that the GOVERNMENT should dissolve unbiblical second, third, or fourth marriages??? If you don't, you're logic isn't consistant.

Christians lived in almost every empire down through history. Empires that allowed all sorts of social arrangements. And we've never become "political". We've always simply held a spiritual position and pronounced condemnation against certain behaviors and practices. When a given Christian religion did gain political power... it was a DISASTER. Remember the Inquisitions?

Also remember, homosexuality isn't the unforgiveable sin.

[sandie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you believe that the GOVERNMENT should dissolve unbiblical second, third, or fourth marriages??? If you don't, you're logic isn't consistant.

Christians lived in almost every empire down through history. Empires that allowed all sorts of social arrangements. And we've never become "political". We've always simply held a spiritual position and pronounced condemnation against certain behaviors and practices. When a given Christian religion did gain political power... it was a DISASTER. Remember the Inquisitions?

Also remember, homosexuality isn't the unforgiveable sin.

I know homosexuality isn't the unforgiveable sin...no remembering needed.
And I don't need a history lesson.

All I'm saying is what I've already said:

The closer we line up with God's ways as an individual and a society the better off we are.
Anyway, that's how I see things.

I don't understand why that is a difficult concept for fellow Christians.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by sandie

I know homosexuality isn't the unforgiveable sin...no remembering needed.
And I don't need a history lesson.

All I'm saying is what I've already said:

The closer we line up with God's ways as an individual and a society the better off we are.
Anyway, that's how I see things.

I don't understand why that is a difficult concept for fellow Christians.

They have the world tell them what to believe. The culture is in control.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by coadie

You don't know my God. My God destroyed Sodom and Not Lot or Abraham.

You need to study more about ancient cultures Coadie... more was going on than the gays of Sodom asking Lot out for dinner, drinks, and a good time.

My God created man and woman for each other.

You'll get no argument from me on that one.

The devil wants to have DOMA laws overturned by judicial stunts. The next step is to punish preachers for preaching against himosexuality in the pulpit.

That devil isn't fighting DOMA. He could care less. He's seen empires rise and fall. Our politics are just a way he entertains himself. Now... yes, Satan would like to persecute preachers that preach and hold to the truth. But instead of being cowards and trying to use GOVERNMENT to curtail the rights of private citizens... I say grant them liberty... and all the radicals to bring it on. When churches and pastors that communities know and revere are under assult for simply living what they believe... then it will be the gay radicals that look like fascists. They will loose traction in the public spot light. Their position will become a political liability. The Gospel will be news at eleven. Stories of good men being sued and in court over their religious beliefs will be news at eleven. It will work to our favor. The church always prospers under social tension.

That is my God. The false gods want attacks on "homophobes"

Coadie, this is the NT. God is out to save all sinners. All sinners. There is only one unforgiveable sin.

My God reigns. My God calls for the Holy Ghost filled to teach against unrighteousnesss.

Apparently he doesn't reign in your eyes if DOMA falls. What you said above indicates that if DOMA falls, Satan wins. lol

Compromisers want preachers of righteoussness to be quiet. NO WAY.

LIBERTY Coadie. Liberty. GOVERNMENT isn't the answer to this problem. In fact, GOVERNMENT is part of the problem.

Lot's wife was a compromiser and you don't get the message.

We love the homosexuals. We let them suffer. Legalizing a phony marriage won't take away pain. REpentence takes away pain.

But they won't realize that marriage isn't the answer until they've tried it and it's found hollow. Give it to them, the majority will realize "marriage" doesn't change the way they feel inside.

Homosexuality is built on lies. To be blunt with you, it is the people that voted for DOMA and not the government. It was the small number of government judges in Iowa that tried to resist the people. That is bad government. God puts conviction into people and they vote.

Yes Coadie... the "people" wanted to use the POLICE POWER OF GOVERNMENT to control the private choices of other Americans. That's the point. That's a clear example of abusing the power of GOVERNMENT. We're becoming GOVERNMENT worshipers.

It is dishonest for people to claim legislation of California marriage will deliver people from bondage and pain.

No one is saying it will. But sin has to run it's course to break the spirit of the sinner. We're blocking the process. Let them go and find out that marriage will not deliver from bondage and pain. Allow them have expended all efforts accept to turn to Jesus.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by sandie

I know homosexuality isn't the unforgiveable sin...no remembering needed.
And I don't need a history lesson.

All I'm saying is what I've already said:

The closer we line up with God's ways as an individual and a society the better off we are.
Anyway, that's how I see things.

I don't understand why that is a difficult concept for fellow Christians.

GOVERNMENT isn't the way to social engineer. We're doing the same thing we accuse them of.

Do you want to change society? Allow Liberty... and preach the Gospel. It's that simple. It was the vision of our Founders.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by sandie

I know homosexuality isn't the unforgiveable sin...no remembering needed.
And I don't need a history lesson.

All I'm saying is what I've already said:

The closer we line up with God's ways as an individual and a society the better off we are.
Anyway, that's how I see things.

I don't understand why that is a difficult concept for fellow Christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Robinson

Read the case of the first gay Episcopal priest.

He gets married and has kids. Not happy
Gets divorce
Mates with a gay Not happy so gets married
Comes out as a gay. Still no happiness.
Tries to fight to keep priest slot Still not happy

Many churches divided over this and leave the Episcopal groups.

He is successfull church splitter

Gene councils gay catholics. Not to repent but to start feeling good. Still no happiness.
Gene Robinson resorts to booze and drugs. He is still in pain.

Gays don't want to surrender.

Legalizing marriage for them will solve zero problems for them They are deluded as it says in Romans 1.

The next step after gay marrige is for gays to get pastors punished for calling it sin. And they still won't be happy.

Jesus is the answer. Gay marriage is not the answer.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

GOVERNMENT isn't the way to social engineer. We're doing the same thing we accuse them of.

Do you want to change society? Allow Liberty... and preach the Gospel. It's that simple. It was the vision of our Founders.

Jesus saves. Your gay marriage agenda won't save a soul.

We are allowing liberty. You are trying to force your views on the people.

Gays want to use courts to dictate and force their agenda.
People are not that stupid.